Any news from Ginnie today?

[tbone1004]

You?ve just pulled a body out of a cave.

You just finished rendering aid at a horrific multi-victim crash.

You?ve just watched your buddies ticket get punched.

After a recounting of the facts to the proper authority, then what?

Some folks cannot deal with a traumatic event at all and look the other way from the get go.

Some folks can suppress emotion through the event by focusing on the task at hand and emotionally crash afterwards.

Some folks can handle the event and are then able to deal with the aftermath bit by bit.

Many of these people will re-live the event in nightmares or flashes that seemingly come out of nowhere.

The after affects, in some cases, can linger seemingly forever.

Nobody I know jumps into assisting in these situations for appreciation or thanks. They are simply wired that way.

I have found sharing the burden to be quite helpful, but have learned the hard way to be careful who I share with. Sharing is a double edged sword. Once it leaves my mouth, I no longer control my own narrative.

Certainly there is a horrendous family tragedy here. There is also a lot of raw emotion yet to be processed by members of our community. Just maybe, we could all be respectful of that and take a step back for a bit.

the point is not for the rescue divers to share the details, it is for the IUCRR to share them. The details are all there within 24 hours of the incident, it's not hard for the coordinator to post something brief

[oceancurrent]

Yeap! Exactly because ICURR badly need help in their information dissemination department, Rich took care of it for them. Preliminary accident report - check!

Ah, all the unappreciative cowards who think that recovering dead comrades in extreme environments is a walk in the park and wouldn't lift a finger to help with a rescue effort when called upon!

So, what sort of hypocrisy was Rich yapping about? Beats me!

[fishinmaniac]

This is ridiculous, someone just died and y?all are sitting here on the internet demanding answers from a VOLUNTEER organization? They don?t owe you ANYTHING, get off your high horses and donate your time if you believe accident reports and information releases are something important for the IUCRR to provide. If you aren?t willing to do that or contact GCSO about information then that?s on you.

Thank you to all involved in the recovery, the difficulty of dealing with that is truly something only a few will ever understand... I wish no one ever had to endure that.


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[farmerted]

Tom, my point is that the iucrr and the rescue divers are one in the same. So by asking for the iucrr to release a report, you are in fact asking that of the divers. If you think that it?s no big deal for the coordinator to release a statement within 24hrs cause they have all the info, why don?t you ask that directly to the coordinator? And do you know for sure that all that info had been compiled by then? It is the duty of the iucrr to assist law enforcement in the investigation and recovery. The iucrr has never posted a report before law enforcement has closed their case. Sometimes that takes a while due to medical findings and such. Yes, in the past the iucrr has not posted reports. It?s not because anyone is withholding information. I honestly think nobody wanted to be bothered with it. I certainly don?t. It has always been policy to not share details of recoveries due to the connection with an open investigation. They are the policies of law enforcement. While I agree with many the release of some info early on would be nice, this is law enforcement policy. Rather than someone posting about a team member leaking info, why not just start a discussion pertaining to some of the issues that were encountered. There?s no doubt that info gets leaked. It happens everywhere in any community. If the recovery involved someone who pushed their gs and ran out, why not start a post on gas management? This would be way more productive than the normal bickering.
How many times have you been working on a problem, say something mechanical is not functioning properly. You think you?ve found the issue and only 10 minutes later the real problem arises. The same thing holds true here. Law enforcement is not going to release a report until it is all compiled and looked at. They will then release the info when a solid conclusion is drawn.

[tbone1004]

Tom, my point is that the iucrr and the rescue divers are one in the same. So by asking for the iucrr to release a report, you are in fact asking that of the divers. If you think that it?s no big deal for the coordinator to release a statement within 24hrs cause they have all the info, why don?t you ask that directly to the coordinator? And do you know for sure that all that info had been compiled by then? It is the duty of the iucrr to assist law enforcement in the investigation and recovery. The iucrr has never posted a report before law enforcement has closed their case. Sometimes that takes a while due to medical findings and such. Yes, in the past the iucrr has not posted reports. It?s not because anyone is withholding information. I honestly think nobody wanted to be bothered with it. I certainly don?t. It has always been policy to not share details of recoveries due to the connection with an open investigation. They are the policies of law enforcement. While I agree with many the release of some info early on would be nice, this is law enforcement policy. Rather than someone posting about a team member leaking info, why not just start a discussion pertaining to some of the issues that were encountered. There?s no doubt that info gets leaked. It happens everywhere in any community. If the recovery involved someone who pushed their gs and ran out, why not start a post on gas management? This would be way more productive than the normal bickering.
How many times have you been working on a problem, say something mechanical is not functioning properly. You think you?ve found the issue and only 10 minutes later the real problem arises. The same thing holds true here. Law enforcement is not going to release a report until it is all compiled and looked at. They will then release the info when a solid conclusion is drawn.

best discussed over whiskey next time I'm down as my experience with LEO on recoveries up here is apparently very different than what you deal with down there.

[ARY]

From what I'm retaining after reading this so far is that manually controlled RB and Solo can be catalytic factor for already mentally loaded mission. Kinda suggest me that mental overload and Solo are something to watch for. RB is probably even worse although other surveying explorers were dying on OC. Mental overload it is.

[kensuf]

The rest of the team knows it was me that asked Richard to post the details. My motivation was to stop the rampant speculation that normally follows a big incident and this was probably one of the most logistically challenging recoveries ever performed. I felt that a release of factual data, skipping anything speculative, and focusing on the effort that the team went through was the best way to quell the rumor mill and disinformation that invariably surrounds anything like this.

I owe everyone on the team an apology for not discussing this first, hopefully they will accept that.

[LiteHedded]

The rest of the team knows it was me that asked Richard to post the details. My motivation was to stop the rampant speculation that normally follows a big incident and this was probably one of the most logistically challenging recoveries ever performed. I felt that a release of factual data, skipping anything speculative, and focusing on the effort that the team went through was the best way to quell the rumor mill and disinformation that invariably surrounds anything like this.

I owe everyone on the team an apology for not discussing this first, hopefully they will accept that.

thanks for making the effort to get that info out Ken

[oceancurrent]

Solo can be catalytic factor

I don't believe there is statistical evidence of increased fatality incidence in solo vs team dives. In fact, the inverse could be true given the overwhelming number of dual and triple fatalities. Solo dives tend to be more focused and productive for a number of reasons. People who dive solo don't forget to keep an eye on their gas and other dive parameters. In fact, they do it with greater reliability than group divers. In any case, we don't know the root cause of this accident just yet. Could be medical, could be equipment failure, or could be a human factor. Whether a buddy could/would have made a difference in this situation is impossible to say.

I felt that a release of factual data, skipping anything speculative, and focusing on the effort that the team went through was the best way to quell the rumor mill

Thank you, Ken! From what I can tell, the data release achieved the effect that you intended very well. While militaristic bureaucracies despise leaks, the people appreciate them. It was the subsequent effort to censor the info that started the firestorm.

[bent]

In fact, the inverse could be true given the overwhelming number of dual and triple fatalities. Solo dives tend to be more focused and productive for a number of reasons. People who dive solo don't forget to keep an eye on their gas and other dive parameters. In fact, they do it with greater reliability than group divers.

Got any evidence to support that theory of yours? And 'overwhelming number of dual and triple fatalities'? When was the last triple fatality.