Too late to edit but I meant to write it's 'not because of pc'.Originally Posted by bent
Not too late, I changed it for you
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
Too late to edit but I meant to write it's 'not because of pc'.
Not too late, I changed it for you
All the bickering is entertaining.
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roadkill
Yeah, just like a show I saw once in Juarez, "Juicy Lucy and her trained donkey".
"Have you ever noticed
When you're feeling really good
There's always a pigeon
That'll come shiat on your hood?" John Prine 4-7-2020
"Into the blue again; in the silent water
Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads
Lmao. Maybe not that exciting
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roadkill
Ideally, I wanted his wife to have the known details first, hopefully a moment to process, then this report posted here.
It is very worthwhile to know what happened, but respecting the family should be a priority.
Do we call “a moment” in this context a day, two, a week; that’s open to debate. A month is too long IMHO.
There will be a gathering at the devils eye pavilion on Friday from 10:00 to 1:00 for the celebration of life for Tom Ellis.
Thanks for letting us know. I'll see you on Friday.
IUCRR
My name is Ken Hill and I have been an IUCRR member for the past 25 years and its Director for the past 15 years.
Kelley texted me asking me to post a little about the IUCRR. It?s founding was done in the day of cave fatalities that involved mostly divers without cave training or cave divers that violated the rules of accident analysis.
The IUCRR is a Florida Not For Profit Corporation that is all volunteer and its SOLE purpose is to provide trained cave divers to assist law enforcement in the rescue/recovery of victims in an underwater cave. The IUCRR has worked very hard to maintain a level of professionalism. In addition we have been rewarded with gratitude and thanks by families and friends of victims we recovered.
The IUCRR is NOT a cave diving organization. It?s accident analysis is forwarded to Cave Diving organizations and it is for their safety officers to promulgate.
Its reports are prepared SOLELY for law enforcement use. They are complete and objective. There is NO speculation in the report. Law Enforcement trusts us to look at what they consider a homicide and a Crime Scene. Our divers make notes or provide photographic evidence of what we see. We are their eyes and ears. Only when finished with documentation do we attempt an extraction. Extractions can be difficult. Gear may have to be removed. Bones may have to be broken in some of the worst cases.
Once our report is turned in Law Enforcement does what does, evaluates it, sometimes asking our professional opinion. It also waits, sometimes months for toxicology reports, autopsy and gear and gas analysis etc. We are in no position to hurry things up.
As to reports not being published like years ago. Well it is 2021. We deal with threats of litigation. One example is the recovery diver at School Sink who was sued by the victims family. We encounter many fatalities the may fall under HIPAA rules. We don?t have a legal department to tell us whats good to go, or not.
We reserve the right to notify the Cave Diving community of an issue that is of an imminent threat to all divers. Other than that the reports belong to Law Enforcement we cannot release them without their approval. And as already said that may take months. We do what we can. If you think we are about keeping secrets you have your own issues to deal with. Use sunshine laws of the State of Florida if you want all the details.
You might want to test what I say by doing something simple. On your way home or going to work if you see an auto accident stop!!! Go over to the Trooper, Deputy or Police officer and give him your internet handle, then demand the who, what, where, when, why and how of the accident so you can post that info to save yourself and other motorists from a similar fate. ..... Let me know how that works out for you.
Accident analysis is important but if you trust your training, trust your dive plan, trust your gear and that of your dive buddy you?ll be fine
I?m doing this from an iPhone so please excuse whatever!
/Ken Hill
“Reason is not automatic. Those that deny it cannot be conquered by it.” Ayn Rand
Thank you Ken
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roadkill
Thank you, Ken.
Thank you for the post, the mission, the clarity, and the recoveries.
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