Any news from Ginnie today?

[Daedalus]

This is part of that mentality of not sharing information. For those with knowledge of these past incidents (not just talking about this most recent one), don't you want to share that information with the hope that it could help others and make the sport safer? It seems like the answer is "no" from a lot of people to the point of actually silencing others.

Noone is stopping you or anyone else from making a written public records request to the applicable government agency and disseminating the results. I even posted a boilerplate written request you could copy paste if you wanted. If you're too shy to ask and not motivated to pursue it and want someone else to do the leg work for you, that's on you and not the IUCRR, the good old boy network, or whoever/whatever the bogeyman is.

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[oceancurrent]

Cave divers holding a constructive discussion on modern accident analysis: "angry mob", "human suffering indulgers", "internet divers", "good ol' boys club", "accident reports mafia conspiracy", "hiding behind the victim family skirt", "go bug Uncle Sam for your accident report - if you have the guts", "slackers that won't put their foot where their mouth is"...

[farmerted]

I would like to point out once again that the IUCRR is a VOLUNTEER organization. Just about everyone who is active with the organization was involved this past week. A lot of time was put in. Now according to some that is not enough? Once again, why doesn?t someone step forward and volunteer their time to help make the accident reporting side better instead of whining about it. It may say on the website the a report will be released or whatever. That was written a long time ago. There is no head office staffed with personnel to handle public relations. It is a group of cave divers donating their time to drag dead people out of caves and aid in the investigation. Who really wants to do that. The website needs a major overhaul. The organization could certainly use more people. If you are someone who is complaining and feeling that you are owed this information, than put on your big kid shoes and step in to help make things better. Everyone would appreciate it. You may also learn something too. If anyone is interested contact someone in the organization to start getting involved.

[bent]

One unreported IUCRR recovery in Ginnie was on OC. This was someone that I knew and was in one of my cave courses. This was several years ago, but no report has been completed by the IUCRR despite the recovery being done by them. This is also not a "lag" in reporting because they have one report from a more recent incident on the website. This was on a DPV which I think is far more dangerous than CCR

Are you talking about the diver who lost his scooter and his buddy and didn't have enough gas to swim out? That one was talked about on here at length. People shared lots of info.
Not sure if Daedalus is just yanking your chain but he's given you a way to get info. If you'd be actually interested, you could at least try to get it instead of just demanding it from behind your computer. What's stopping you?
IIRC the other day you and others complained about the CDS not being worth the membership fee... that's also a club that lives of people donating their time. If you or anyone else unhappy with the situation, try to help out in the future.

[tbone1004]

Are you talking about the diver who lost his scooter and his buddy and didn't have enough gas to swim out? That one was talked about on here at length. People shared lots of info.
Not sure if Daedalus is just yanking your chain but he's given you a way to get info. If you'd be actually interested, you could at least try to get it instead of just demanding it from behind your computer. What's stopping you?
IIRC the other day you and others complained about the CDS not being worth the membership fee... that's also a club that lives of people donating their time. If you or anyone else unhappy with the situation, try to help out in the future.

no, that one is documented on the IUCRR site. I have requested the report from the IUCRR several times, they did not provide it. I don't make a habit of wasting my time with a lost cause. The IUCRR is headed up by Ken Hill, who is the primary reason for the muzzling. As long as he is head of that organization I do not see any positive changes in communication happening and volunteering with the intent of changing that would be a complete waste.

[bent]

Tom, do you really think complaining about it on the internet is gonna help in anyway? Besides, Ted has already said several time that he's gonna share details if there is no report released after the investigation is closed. What more do you want?
As I already said, just open a thread about some issue that could have occured in any rebreather cave accident. I would like to read about it. It doesn't have to be about a specific accident and it doesn't have to be a day after an accident. That would be more productive.
BTW: Riches thread is back online.

[Daedalus]

no, that one is documented on the IUCRR site. I have requested the report from the IUCRR several times, they did not provide it. I don't make a habit of wasting my time with a lost cause. The IUCRR is headed up by Ken Hill, who is the primary reason for the muzzling. As long as he is head of that organization I do not see any positive changes in communication happening and volunteering with the intent of changing that would be a complete waste.

If you requested a report from GCSO about a closed diving death case when I explained to you exactly how to do it you would have gotten a response by now. If GCSO refuses to release a report about a recent case because an investigation is ongoing, would it be smart for IUCRR to release it? I submit not.

Again. ask GCSO they have a nice lady with a badge, a uniform, and an email address who gets paid to deal with requests from the public. IUCRR doesnt and some may argue shouldn't since it's an open question on their sovereign immunity vs. the sherriffs office.

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[OFG-1]

One of the things you guys complaining about info has not explained to me is exactly why you believe you are entitled to anything other than a public record. And why you are too damn lazy to actually do and get the record for yourself?

[diveconjeff]

You?ve just pulled a body out of a cave.

You just finished rendering aid at a horrific multi-victim crash.

You?ve just watched your buddies ticket get punched.

After a recounting of the facts to the proper authority, then what?

Some folks cannot deal with a traumatic event at all and look the other way from the get go.

Some folks can suppress emotion through the event by focusing on the task at hand and emotionally crash afterwards.

Some folks can handle the event and are then able to deal with the aftermath bit by bit.

Many of these people will re-live the event in nightmares or flashes that seemingly come out of nowhere.

The after affects, in some cases, can linger seemingly forever.

Nobody I know jumps into assisting in these situations for appreciation or thanks. They are simply wired that way.

I have found sharing the burden to be quite helpful, but have learned the hard way to be careful who I share with. Sharing is a double edged sword. Once it leaves my mouth, I no longer control my own narrative.

Certainly there is a horrendous family tragedy here. There is also a lot of raw emotion yet to be processed by members of our community. Just maybe, we could all be respectful of that and take a step back for a bit.

[tbone1004]

One of the things you guys complaining about info has not explained to me is exactly why you believe you are entitled to anything other than a public record. And why you are too damn lazy to actually do and get the record for yourself?

because the IUCRR says they will give it to us and are not consistent in when they do or do not.