Please Remove - "I have left the cave" note in Ginnie.

[atedeschi]

I feel like these notes being left should be stopped or used for real emergenice. I saw the note during my dive on the way in and out, and there was no line to it so I figured it was not a big issue. I actually did not read it because in the last 2 weeks I have seen about 5 or six notes. Therefore I take it as people are just doing dives, turning and leaving a note for someone they entered the water with. If this is the case, then just plan as solo dives and leave when you hit 3rds or whatever. Also after stopping for a few notes last week I already started just going by them. I can see the use of the note in a emergencey, but if you want something make a cookie and if you get seperated leave it at your first jump so your buddy knows or have better buddy awareness.

[jj1987]

My bad on that. I will man up on that. But James is making more out of this then needs to be.

Red, please see post #5.

I'm guessing the intent wasn't malicious, but rather a joke that was funny at the time, but not so well thought out....so I wouldn't crucify the diver.

My concern was to get it out of the cave asap before someone, especially if they were swimming, where covering distance takes longer and more gas, thought there might be a diver in danger and decided to go looking. Andrew recently posted about how irrational people can be when they think a life is in danger, as his gf chased a dog that was near a bear. The threads about "how long would you look" clearly prove that the vast majority of people aren't really sure how much gas it takes to exit the cave, and that could be a serious issue if they go looking. There was a death recently in that same area from a lost buddy, and another team of 3 separated who left a very similar note but in a real life situation this past week.

I actually think we were talking about leaky dry suits after the galaxy dive Saturday night. Didn't realize it was you until I was leaving and saw "Red" on the scooter. I didn't bring it up then because the note was gone, and a non issue, so I had no desire to create hard feelings....I was happy pretending as if I had no idea who did it. Either way, I had a name the whole time, but didn't point out who it was because I didn't think that any malicious intent was meant (like I posted), even though the note was completely inappropriate IMO, but since the match head had worn off, it just didn't make sense. If you look at my first posts in this thread, you'll see that there was no mention of a name, or any attempt to "call you out".

[FW]

I'll go to JB this weekend and remove everything from the trash room.



Doesn't it seem like we are going a little overboard here? I agree with not putting arrows on the line as "personal best" distance markers and bringing loads of toys into the systems. The pioneers put some of these items in these systems and they are now a part of history. Shouldn't we leave those items in the system?

The stuff in the trash room wasn't hauled back there by divers. There was once an opening to the surface, and that stuff was actually trash that was dumped in a sinkhole years ago.

[Sludge]

Unfortunately, there is less trash there than when I first started going there. About half. I'm afraid people have been taking souvenirs. Even though EVERYONE knows the cavers' adage about taking at least one piece of trash out of the cave every trip doesn't apply here.

The trash in the Trash Room is part of the cave, and taking it is no different from taking fossils.

[FW]

Unfortunately, there is less trash there than when I first started going there. About half. I'm afraid people have been taking souvenirs. Even though EVERYONE knows the cavers' adage about taking at least one piece of trash out of the cave every trip doesn't apply here.

The trash in the Trash Room is part of the cave, and taking it is no different from taking fossils.

Yes, and it seems to "migrate". The stoplight wasn't sitting up on a rock, when I first saw it years ago

[Sludge]

But now its location is on all the maps, so...

[RN]

The threads about "how long would you look" clearly prove that the vast majority of people aren't really sure how much gas it takes to exit the cave, and that could be a serious issue if they go looking.

My comment had nothing to do with knowing how much gas it takes to exit the cave. While you may have started your exit with enough gas to exit. Do you start it with enough gas to handle your own emergency had one come up?

[Reddiver]

Ok you judge. Dose this look like a note left by and diver in a emergency or have a little fun. And tell me say that the note was NOT to be lefted in for more then a few hours that is it. I'm sorry that one took it the wrong way. But then you be the judge. I know that first impressions or golden but now you can judge by reading it for or self. If you would of read it and seen it the next day it should of been pulled. It was not easy getting back from the team that pulled it so they gave me a pic only. I was going to pull it but somebody got Ginnie all worked up over it and made it a big deal. So hear it is you judge it.

[OneBrightGator]

It doesn't belong in the cave.

Keep the practical jokes on the surface.

[NWGratefulDiver]

Ok you judge. Dose this look like a note left by and diver in a emergency or have a little fun. And tell me say that the note was NOT to be lefted in for more then a few hours that is it. I'm sorry that one took it the wrong way. But then you be the judge. I know that first impressions or golden but now you can judge by reading it for or self. If you would of read it and seen it the next day it should of been pulled. It was not easy getting back from the team that pulled it so they gave me a pic only. I was going to pull it but somebody got Ginnie all worked up over it and made it a big deal. So hear it is you judge it.

The problem, as I see it Red, is that such notes are intended to be used for emergencies. This wasn't an emergency. Irrespective of the fact that it may have caused someone to overstay their welcome in the cave due to looking for a diver who wasn't there, it also desensitizes people to the urgency that such a note would convey if it were a real emergency ... in other words, what are the odds that the time a diver places such a note for real, it gets taken by those in a position to help as another joke?

There's a time and a place for humor ... this doesn't appear to be an appropriate place for it. If you and your friends were the only ones using the cave, maybe I'd see it differently ... but there's people in there who take such things seriously, and respond accordingly, at increased risk to themselves and their team.

That, at least, is the perspective of a cave newb who would definitely have taken that note as a sign that somebody was in trouble ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)