Ginnie exploration

[Gary]

IIRC the owners of Ginnie threatened to close down to cave divers if CEE opened down the street also.

Anyone else remember that?

Maybe this time they are serious but I find the threat illogical unless their own liability for diver injury from their property is a concern.

As Andrew has said if the NACD doesn't publish now it someone will somewhere else. The NACD journal would be much better for "whatever their concern is" then if posted on the Internet.

[rchrds]

Maybe the opportunity cost of your time is valued at minimum wage....I have spent a bit of time at ginnie (day and night) and have hardly ever (maybe once) observed it being dove from the river over the last few years. Bill Huth

Thanks for your poorly informed opinion Bill. Keep paying your bills, and the few of us that do (and dont live our lives based on how much time and money we waste canoeing) will keep diving from the river.

Jason

[inkdiver]

Ginnie Management can obviously do whatever they want. On the other hand. if people are seriously considering NOT publishing the article because Ginnie management is even remotely suggesting holding access to divers hostage, then they (the ones with the petition) really need a good slap upside the head. I mean really, is anyone going to let them hold that much power over the cave diving community??? VERY Sad. It's not like I'm diving there for FREE, I'm paying them for the opportunity. And, may I add, a HELL OF A LOT MORE per year than I do to dive at the state parks. It is clear that the income from divers at Ginnie is a pittance compared to the income from tubers and campers. Funny, though, that Eric has plenty of stories all summer long about the drunks drowning, and tripping and fracturing their skulls, and beating the **** out of each other. Clearly liability isn't really an issue for Ginnie. I guarantee they have many more lawsuits pending from drunks than they do from cave divers.

I have my list of Ginnie's "Rules" and I don't see anywhere that is states that someone can't explore and publish the results. Sour grapes by the good old boys club once again.

Oh yeah, and the comment that Andrew is not from cave country or even the "Right Coast" is complete BS. He pays his entrance fee like anyone else. And, by the way, I don't really consider being from SC as being from cave country either.

*rant off*

[wingman]

Thanks for your poorly informed opinion Bill. Keep paying your bills, and the few of us that do (and dont live our lives based on how much time and money we waste canoeing) will keep diving from the river.

Jason

You are welcome and you keep doing whatever it is you enjoy as will I....ignorance is bliss. Bill

[aainslie]

Just a quick note - some people thought that my posts got censored by the moderators. In fact i removed them. I need to talk to a few people, and think that for once in my life, care going forward might benefit everyone. So I removed them as I was sort of shooting from the hip.

Having said that, I do want to thank all attendants at a recent party for giving a certain petition the contempt that it deserved.

(Edited by me - as requested, rationally and thoughtfully, by the moderators)

[Sludge]

Wow, that just about borders on a rule number something violation. PM sent.

[RN]

You have got to be kidding..if it were cheaper that's the way it would be happening now.

Cheap and convenient are 2 different things. I now dive exclusively from a boat, and although it's not as convenient as driving up to the site, it takes a lot less time than when I was driving to sign in (I'm sure you know the cave I'm talking about), and I don't have to worry about being locked in or out.

[wingman]

Cheap and convenient are 2 different things. I now dive exclusively from a boat, and although it's not as convenient as driving up to the site, it takes a lot less time than when I was driving to sign in (I'm sure you know the cave I'm talking about), and I don't have to worry about being locked in or out.

Actually what we are speaking about is a price associated with doing a dive and that factors in all apects of the dive. Costs associated with alternatives are measurable and what is being discussed here is empirical. I simply stated that, given observed behavior, it was obvious what the least cost solution was. That some would choose substitutes because of, perhaps, strongly held preferences does not change that conclusion.

[Cali Knucklehead]

I asure you it is not jealousy.

The authors of this supposed article are not residents of the North Florida area nor do they even live on the Right Coast. They have virturally nothing to lose if the article is published and Ginnie Springs blocks diving from their property. We are talking about ONE person screwing it up for everyone that cave dives.

You tell him Capt Tom! To be completely honest, the "author of the supposed article" (that would be Dr. Ainslie) isn't even a US citizen so maybe we should ban him from diving in general.

I find it hard to believe that this isn't a jealousy issue and I find it very hard to believe that Rose came out against this without outside pressure. She knows a number of us from the "wrong coast" and I seriously doubt she would hesitate to pick up the phone and ask "WTF?" if she wasn't being poked and prodded by others.

I beg to differ on the "nothing to lose" comment as well. Do you know Dr. Ainslie? Do you have any idea how many days a year he spends at Ginnie? His hours logged underwater at Ginnie over the last 12 months likely exceed that of many of the locals. Don't believe me? Talk to Rich at CEE or Wayne at Amigos or Corey at Salvo. Cave diving is his passion and he'd spend even more time in Florida if it wasn't for that little thing called work.

Bruce

[Randy Thornton]

I can't actually believe I am reading "left coast/right coast" stuff. I didn't use to give a lot of credence to the "good old boys club" as put forth by the conspiracy theorists, however these kind of comments paint a whole new picture. Without us left coasters, northerners, out of towners, foreigners, etc. coming to Cave Country and spending our vacation time, hard earned money etc., there would not be much of a cave diving industry in North Central Florida to enjoy! Obviously, we all need to work together to help promote access, property owner relations, etc., but lay off the "wrong coasts" comments. They are completely inappropriate and embarrassing to the cave diving community!

Regards,
Randy Thornton (left coast cave diver)