Turner-Wakulla Traverse

[wingman]

So what are we talking about?

That's a good question...you are talking and i am talking but no communication is taking place.

[RAL]

If all organizations were judged by statements of members who haven't been involved in YEARS, then I guess a lot of ill will could be had. Even amongst other cave organizations.

I came to caving after the GI3 era, and to be honest, I'm quite happy to work with any organization as I am learning a lot from them all.

GI3 is not the topic. A for profit organization that controls the access to a public site by requiring buying their training & gear to gain access is. You can call it many things but right is not one of them. My self I have no interest in diving Wakulla it is a serious dive that requires very committed people, such as the WKPP to pull it off safely. They are not however the only ones who possess the skill, means & will to do this. Say what you will but the rest of us know when we step in it.

RAL

[PerroneFord]

GI3 is not the topic. A for profit organization that controls the access to a public site by requiring buying their training & gear to gain access is. You can call it many things but right is not one of them. My self I have no interest in diving Wakulla it is a serious dive that requires very committed people, such as the WKPP to pull it off safely. They are not however the only ones who possess the skill, means & will to do this. Say what you will but the rest of us know when we step in it.

RAL

Well, you don't have to buy WKPP gear (or Halcyon either) but you do have to take the courses. I don't think that anyone can logically argue that the WKPP is the only team who could have made the connection from Leon Sinks to Wakulla. But there were certainly one team who could, and they were there first, with a legal permit to do so.

I've heard the argument that there are other teams out there with the requisite skill, means, and will to do this kind of work, but where are they? What are they doing? The Weeki Wachee exploration is a great example. Highly skilled team, hand selected members, and they got good work done. Not just any Joe diver can dive there (is it a private or public resource?). But why is the argument just about Wakulla? With all the other systems that need exploration, why aren't more of these skilled teams, with the means and the will, pushing them?

[PerroneFord]

That's a good question...you are talking and i am talking but no communication is taking place.

I think we are. You have clearly communicated that your issue, at least on it's face, is that a private organization has exclusive use of a public resource. WSSP is about 35 minutes from me. I'd love to be able to dive there. Though I currently lack the skill and training to do so, even if I had them, I am just not as bothered by this as you seem to be. To be fair, quite a lot of people seem bothered by it as well, so I guess there is something to it.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings.

[PerroneFord]

Post on here when you finally move up from sherpa to someone that gets to dive into the cave unguided.

That would require me taking Cave1. I may or may not do that. But I'm not sure why that really matters.

I would be interested in the timeframe it takes to go from the "bottom" (after taking fundies, cave 1, cave 2) to being able to dive the sytem that you are assisting very few to explore.

Depends on what you mean by "dive the system". From what I've seen on site, the time frame is relatively short. Less than a year. People I took Fundies with are regular diving members on the team.

Either way, no one can discount the fact that the dives being done are major accomplishments from an exploration point of view.

Agreed.

[Caver95]

Depends on what you mean by "dive the system". From what I've seen on site, the time frame is relatively short. Less than a year. People I took Fundies with are regular diving members on the team.

That sure is a lot of money to spend, when all they had to do was go to Tractor Supply to see what an upside down cattle trough looks like. I bet the nice people there would even let them put an O2 bottle in it too.

[Mike Edmonston]

That sure is a lot of money to spend, when all they had to do was go to Tractor Supply to see what an upside down cattle trough looks like. I bet the nice people there would even let them put an O2 bottle in it too.

[wingman]

I think we are. You have clearly communicated that your issue, at least on it's face, is that a private organization has exclusive use of a public resource.

I think we are not...my issue is that the private organization requires members to be certified/trained by a for profit corporation that is affiliated with it. I think it might be easier to get into Lechugilla then Wakulla.

[RAL]

Well, you don't have to buy WKPP gear (or Halcyon either) but you do have to take the courses.

How many SS scooters are in use on the team?

RAL

[aainslie]

How many SS scooters are in use on the team?

RAL

...or Salvo lights? Diverite wings? Etc etc etc