Election nss

[Kelly Jessop]

Myth #3
“With the option of a junior membership, no one will renew as full members”.
Again — wrong. Over the last year with a junior membership option, we saw no decrease in full memberships. Let me repeat that for the haters: last year with a junior membership option, we saw no net decrease in full memberships. At a time when other organizations like the NSS are losing members, the CDS is holding its own; and what’s good for the CDS is good for the NSS. The CDS full members are roughly 12% of the NSS now.

Question, and please don't categorize me as a "hater",it is good the CDS membership isn't dropping, but are the people who are becoming CDS only members converting to NSS membership after 1 year per the rules of an IO? The CDS only membership level has existed for over a year , and how I am reading the rules, they should become NSS members upon renewal or be dropped. "C. IOs may, at their option, have members who are not members of the NSS and who are limited to a year or less on this status."

TJ you bring up a good point about having the NSS present at the workshop and talk about the benefits of the NSS. You understand because you have spent time with the governing body, and if you didn't think there is value, you wouldn't considering running for their board, which I thank you for becoming involved. Honestly, projecting the value of the NSS is going to have to come from the CDS board, who are required to be members of the NSS per the rules of an IO. Cave divers think of themselves more as divers than cavers, so this has always been a huge void to fill.

[Sly-vester]

Question, and please don't categorize me as a "hater",it is good the CDS membership isn't dropping, but are the people who are becoming CDS only members converting to NSS membership after 1 year per the rules of an IO? The CDS only membership level has existed for over a year , and how I am reading the rules, they should become NSS members upon renewal or be dropped. "C. IOs may, at their option, have members who are not members of the NSS and who are limited to a year or less on this status."

TJ you bring up a good point about having the NSS present at the workshop and talk about the benefits of the NSS. You understand because you have spent time with the governing body, and if you didn't think there is value, you wouldn't considering running for their board, which I thank you for becoming involved. Honestly, projecting the value of the NSS is going to have to come from the CDS board, who are required to be members of the NSS per the rules of an IO. Cave divers think of themselves more as divers than cavers, so this has always been a huge void to fill.

Good point Kelly, The interpretation of the IO rules "limited in scope to one year" was one of the main reasons I voted against the referendum. I felt the junior membership is fine you get one year then upon renewal, one must step up to full membership. The interpretation being used was one could have several one-year junior memberships which what I did not agree with. The good thing about interpretation is it can be changed without a written by-law change.

[Kelly Jessop]

Good point Kelly, The interpretation of the IO rules "limited in scope to one year" was one of the main reasons I voted against the referendum. I felt the junior membership is fine you get one year then upon renewal, one must step up to full membership. The interpretation being used was one could have several one-year junior memberships which what I did not agree with. The good thing about interpretation is it can be changed without a written by-law change.

Technically "junior" membership doesn't exist in our lexicon,but the one year "intro" period is actually a temporary membership in the grotto, and then you become a full member. Does the CDS convert these people after 1 year to full membership, my understanding no. This is up to the CDS, because I will always maintain an NSS membership, but as a future governing board member, you will have the duty of upholding the rules of the IOs.

[Sly-vester]

Correct on all points TJ. So there was never a need to change the bylaws to allow for CDS only membership. I would be in favor of leaving it, except for the part in the revised constitution that says:
ARTICLE VIII:
The Constitution, and Bylaws of the NSS shall NOT be binding on the NSS-CDS

Forrest, there was no provision for a intro membership so a by-law change was needed. As you know I fought the bylaw change for reasons I stated above. The numbers do not lie, And the success of the intro membership is right there in black-and-white. Reverting back to the old bylaws will undo the progress this organization has made both financially and in gains of membership which are also potential members to the NSS. I cannot in good conscience vote for something that will set the organization back no matter what I am running for. I am up for interpreting of the limited in scope to one year clause as requiring full membership upon renewal. But I will not throw the baby out with the bathwater.


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[Avs123]

Drain the sinkhole!!!!

[Kelly Jessop]

TJ question- knowing that someone can be member of that IO for 1 year,and then they have to become a member of the NSS, what would your response be as a NSS governing board member if the IO allowed them to continue as a "Intro", "temporary","junior" member each year? To be in compliance what would your action be as an NSS board member?

[JoeyP]

When I looked I could not find where the one year requirement was in the bylaws. I only found where it was a past practice but not a hard and fast rule. I don't think there is any compliance issue.

My understanding is that this seems to be working well and has not harmed the NSS and has helped the CDS.

[jlillest]

Forrest, there was no provision for a intro membership so a by-law change was needed. As you know I fought the bylaw change for reasons I stated above. The numbers do not lie, And the success of the intro membership is right there in black-and-white. Reverting back to the old bylaws will undo the progress this organization has made both financially and in gains of membership which are also potential members to the NSS. I cannot in good conscience vote for something that will set the organization back no matter what I am running for. I am up for interpreting of the limited in scope to one year clause as requiring full membership upon renewal. But I will not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

TJ, you addressed the first part of Forrest's comment, but not the second. Can you address the part about the change to Article 8? I think you guys agree about everything you commented on.

[jlillest]

When I looked I could not find where the one year requirement was in the bylaws. I only found where it was a past practice but not a hard and fast rule. I don't think there is any compliance issue.

Policy for Internal Organizations, Bullet/Section #5, Part C
https://caves.org/nss-business/bog/Append-D.pdf (NSS member login required)

[Kelly Jessop]

When I looked I could not find where the one year requirement was in the bylaws. I only found where it was a past practice but not a hard and fast rule. I don't think there is any compliance issue.

My understanding is that this seems to be working well and has not harmed the NSS and has helped the CDS.

5. The membership of IOs shall conform to the following requirements:
A. All persons who serve on the governing board of an IO must be a member of the NSS except in the case of Surveys where representatives of state entities or other conservation organizations may serve on the board regardless of their NSS membership status.
B. Full membership in IOs shall be open only to members of the NSS.
C. IOs may, at their option, have members who are not members of the NSS and who are limited to a year or less on this status.
D. Membership in grottos (or chapters) shall consist of at least five members of the NSS who have designated that grotto as their Primary Affiliation
E. The formal name of a Student Grotto shall indicate that the organization is a Student Grotto (or Chapter).
F. Membership in sections shall consist of at least ten members of the NSS