Election nss

[JoeyP]

This is good in theory,but it is imperative the leadership of these grottos and sections see value in it and understand the main organization to be able to communicate this value. Rarely have CDS board members attended the national convention. participated in COG (if they know what this acronym means) etc. Rarely, if ever do you see in the platform statement of someone running for the board, I want to develop a better relationship with the NSS and help the CDS grow within their umbrella. If you in your role with the NSS are able to develop a relationship, then that will be truly remarkable. The uphill climb is that we are trained as divers, and not as cavers, so we identify with the diving part of the equation, not the caving. Hence we are divers who enter caves. Honestly I don't see a lot of change occurring because we as an organization don't want to change, I get it. The demise of the NACD, where unfortunate, was not without prediction for so many reasons beyond the scope of this thread, but at least knowing the CDS has some affiliation with a larger organization, I have comfort in knowing the CDS may have some longevity. Pity, the CDS has the potential of out living the sport, at least in Florida.

Kelly:

I think NSS presence at the conference this year will go a long way towards this goal. Not trying to be "tit for tat" here but in the real world if an organization had a group which represents 10% of its dues revenues it would make sure that the leadership and membership of that group are aware of what the larger organization does for them. Such has not been the case. The NSS needs to overcome the negative perception held by many cave divers who fail to see the value in being part of it. The presence of Geary Schindel at the meeting Thursday night went a *long* way towards that end. I think if the NSS sponsored a few events in "Cave Country" - rope clinics and / or other things - even a "get to know the NSS" picnic or something would help a lot. I'm not trying to say that the NSS has to do anything in particular for the CDS but if they were able to give the perception of "we are behind you and support you" I think over time much of this negativity will change. There is great value in developing a symbiosis between the NSS and the NSS-CDS.

[Cobalt Blue]

I have been a member of the NSS-CDS for roughly 12 or 13 years, and have read the past 10+ pages of this thread with interest.

I personally believe the NSS is a very worthwhile organization. I know we want our underwater caves to be conserved, and as Kelly more than once has pointed out, the NSS is all about wet as well as dry caves...sounds like as cave divers, we need to be more proactive about showing the rest of the NSS, what it is that we do...I for one really like the paper magazine, and voted as such when that was in question for the UWS, mainly because I like to leave a copy laying around for others to see what it is I enjoy doing - not so easy if electronic. I have to say that the NSS magazine does not have much CDS content, which is out of sync with the 12% CDS membership within the NSS reported earlier in this thread...why shouldn’t we have roughly 12% CDS content in the NSS magazine? It would be great if there could be a CDS article in every issue...I expect this might make the NSS magazine worth reading to those CDS members that currently don’t find it worth while. One idea to build NSS content might be to write about our awards - Kelly mentioned that the NSS does not publish grotto specific awards in the member book, but that would not preclude writing an article on occasion to highlight those accomplishments - now anyone who reaches that level, and maybe a few of their friends might want a copy...ergo, they may even want to become NSS members? Just a thought.

Speaking of magazines...my personal experience with the CDS over the last roughly 12 years is inconsistent with my membership. I have had periods where I knew my membership was current, but I wasn’t receiving the magazine, and magazine receipt is the only way I know my membership is up to date...a few phone calls usually resolved this. To the several points in this thread...membership is important...what I have experienced is that it feels incredibly difficult to give my money to either organization. Seems there is an awful lot of focus on getting new members...but I have to ask, how much effort goes into keeping existing members? What I mean is...if my membership is about to expire, why not let me know and make it really EASY to give the NSS and CDS my money? A simple e-mail with a “click here to give us your money” would be great! Maybe I just don’t know the secret sauce on how to keep up with it?

Case in point, I just dove Cow a couple week so ago...and guess what, I wasn’t on the list and neither was my buddy. We both thought we were up to date, but apparently not. Interestingly, we both asked to pay on-site at Dive Outpost to renew both our NSS and CDS dues, but the combo NSS-CDS path was way too difficult, so we took the much easier local route and just paid the CDS only dues...maybe lack of attention to renewals and differences in renewal systems accounts for some of the numbers shifting around NSS versus CDS? My feeling was that the NSS dues so should have been just as easy to do at the dive shop as the CDS side...especially for a simple renewal.

To the incoming board...Please make it easy for me to know my membership status, and also make is easy to give BOTH organizations my money (whatever choice I might make)...please also ensure the mailing list for publications gets updated at the same time, as I really want others to see what we get to see and do, and this is the only current feedback I get that let’s me know the status of my membership.

Good luck and thanks to all former and future board members!

[shellmoundal]

I have been a member of the NSS-CDS for roughly 12 or 13 years, and have read the past 10+ pages of this thread with interest.

I personally believe the NSS is a very worthwhile organization. I know we want our underwater caves to be conserved, and as Kelly more than once has pointed out, the NSS is all about wet as well as dry caves...sounds like as cave divers, we need to be more proactive about showing the rest of the NSS, what it is that we do...I for one really like the paper magazine, and voted as such when that was in question for the UWS, mainly because I like to leave a copy laying around for others to see what it is I enjoy doing - not so easy if electronic. I have to say that the NSS magazine does not have much CDS content, which is out of sync with the 12% CDS membership within the NSS reported earlier in this thread...why shouldn’t we have roughly 12% CDS content in the NSS magazine? It would be great if there could be a CDS article in every issue...I expect this might make the NSS magazine worth reading to those CDS members that currently don’t find it worth while. One idea to build NSS content might be to write about our awards - Kelly mentioned that the NSS does not publish grotto specific awards in the member book, but that would not preclude writing an article on occasion to highlight those accomplishments - now anyone who reaches that level, and maybe a few of their friends might want a copy...ergo, they may even want to become NSS members? Just a thought.

Speaking of magazines...my personal experience with the CDS over the last roughly 12 years is inconsistent with my membership. I have had periods where I knew my membership was current, but I wasn’t receiving the magazine, and magazine receipt is the only way I know my membership is up to date...a few phone calls usually resolved this. To the several points in this thread...membership is important...what I have experienced is that it feels incredibly difficult to give my money to either organization. Seems there is an awful lot of focus on getting new members...but I have to ask, how much effort goes into keeping existing members? What I mean is...if my membership is about to expire, why not let me know and make it really EASY to give the NSS and CDS my money? A simple e-mail with a “click here to give us your money” would be great! Maybe I just don’t know the secret sauce on how to keep up with it?

Case in point, I just dove Cow a couple week so ago...and guess what, I wasn’t on the list and neither was my buddy. We both thought we were up to date, but apparently not. Interestingly, we both asked to pay on-site at Dive Outpost to renew both our NSS and CDS dues, but the combo NSS-CDS path was way too difficult, so we took the much easier local route and just paid the CDS only dues...maybe lack of attention to renewals and differences in renewal systems accounts for some of the numbers shifting around NSS versus CDS? My feeling was that the NSS dues so should have been just as easy to do at the dive shop as the CDS side...especially for a simple renewal.

To the incoming board...Please make it easy for me to know my membership status, and also make is easy to give BOTH organizations my money (whatever choice I might make)...please also ensure the mailing list for publications gets updated at the same time, as I really want others to see what we get to see and do, and this is the only current feedback I get that let’s me know the status of my membership.

Good luck and thanks to all former and future board members!

Thank you for being such a valuable member of the NSS/CDS. We do need to have an article in the NSS magazine every quarter. Your thread was right on. I might suggest that you write the article for the next NSS publication. You understand that the NSS and the CDS are thinking in like minds. We promote safety, conservation, exploration, and education. I think that with us having an article in each of the NSS publications that we would find that many NSS members would enjoy the change from dry to wet caves,

[Kelly Jessop]

Thank you for being such a valuable member of the NSS/CDS. We do need to have an article in the NSS magazine every quarter. Your thread was right on. I might suggest that you write the article for the next NSS publication. You understand that the NSS and the CDS are thinking in like minds. We promote safety, conservation, exploration, and education. I think that with us having an article in each of the NSS publications that we would find that many NSS members would enjoy the change from dry to wet caves,

Why not an article on the introduction to the CDS. They hear about our accidents, but perhaps not our safety awards which represent X number of safe hours diving. Our conservation efforts. Training we do, and how mentoring is not adequate,but actual training programs. Honestly, the average "dry" caver doesn't understand cave divers, and really think we have a death wish.

[MORGAN]

Honestly, the average "dry" caver doesn't understand cave divers, and really think we have a death wish.

True. The friend who got Tracy and I into "dry" caving in the 1970's had an old copy of the NCRC cave rescue handbook. The chapter on cave diving said, "Cave diving has perhaps the highest fatality rate of all human endeavors, possibly excepting overt attempts at suicide".

I may not have the quote exactly right, but that was the gist of it. If you had asked me then if I would ever try cave diving: "Nope! Nope! Nope!"

[shellmoundal]

Kelly, you could write the article.

[FW]

...To the incoming board...Please make it easy for me to know my membership status, and also make is easy to give BOTH organizations my money (whatever choice I might make)...please also ensure the mailing list for publications gets updated at the same time, as I really want others to see what we get to see and do, and this is the only current feedback I get that let's me know the status of my membership...

To check your NSS membership, go to https://caves.org/membersearch/ Your username is your NSS number, and password is your zipcode. To renew go to https://caves.org/nssapps/renew.shtml Scroll down the page to find CDS renewal.

You can also ask me, or the CDS mamager [email protected]

[cavedivingwoman]

Hi everyone - 'Informative and civil discussion here, what a pleasure! Everyone who serves or has served on the board has my gratitude and appreciation (I've been on others and understand how difficult it can be). Thanks also to the folks who stay critically involved in any capacity.

I've been one of the UWS editors for 10 years or more. The publication is dear to my heart. But having made my living in publishing, I understand how expensive it is to produce a full-color glossy. I don't have the answer, but look forward to continued involvement. I think the magazine is a huge draw - I give issues to dive buddies and students here in CA. They always are curious and interested, and it's an opportunity to emphasize safety, conservation, and water quality issues.

NSS News occasionally prints one of our articles. I’d be happy to work with the NSS editors about getting some space for us if the membership so decides.

I can’t make it to Marianna this year but will continue to follow these issues. Best to all.

Barbara Dwyer

[bigdave]