Eagles Nest to Repeat?

[lv2dive]

So is concern for the welfare of a child enough to allow suspension of Rule 6 of this forum? Just curious.

Marty posted while I was writing the above. Let me state that I do NOT agree with allowing a 10 year old in a cavern by any means. But I am kind of surprised by the personal attacks against Marty being allowed, as well.

[caveflyer]

Rule 6; Comments about individuals, agencies, organizations, political parties and businesses will be removed if found to be inflammatory or cause the discussion to be uncivil.

"if found to be inflammatory or cause the discussion to be uncivil."; I'd say what has happened here is neither of these, it was fact based and civil.

[Tegg]

Marty,

I think you may be misunderstanding this thread's original intent.

This was the first example of "See Something, Say Something".

I am interested in which agency your son has earned his cavern certification or is in class to earn. The reason I ask this is simple. You were diving on state park land which has some simple rules posted. Unless your son was in a class through an agency for cavern or already has his cavern certification, then he cannot dive in the locations that he was witnessed diving.

This is exactly what the "See Something, Say Something" idea is all about, right?

[lv2dive]

And I would agree that your posts did not; however, when people are making comments like "US Cave (recovery team practice subjects) Diving Team?" a line has been crossed IMHO. If "recovery team practice subjects" is not inflammatory I guess I just don't understand the meaning of the word.

Rule 6; Comments about individuals, agencies, organizations, political parties and businesses will be removed if found to be inflammatory or cause the discussion to be uncivil.

"if found to be inflammatory or cause the discussion to be uncivil."; I'd say what has happened here is neither of these, it was fact based and civil.

[MK7]

My boy, who is 10, has been under my direction for MORE than 3 years now starting in basic O/W, Adv O/W in many different caverns with me, and yes, he's better than most.

What agency allows scuba training at seven?

[rddvet]

Unfortunately based on the attitude in his response and chest thumping mentality of being in more caves around the world than most of us, nothing will get Marty to see the other side of the coin here. It seems the mentality is that he's an accomplished diver with x, x, x certs and training credentials so the rules don't necessarily apply to his family.

His mentality is a direct opposite of one of my respected instructors. He's an accomplished diver with ridiculous experience and training credentials, yet he never speaks of any of it. His daughter had to wait until she was well above the minimum certs requirementsfor him to allow her to get certified, because she needed to prove she had the wits to be a thinking, safe diver.

For some reason I keep thinking of this as an absurd rendition of Bill Cosby's rant when his son pisses him off and he tells him, " I brought you in this world and I can take you out of it."

[brandonmc]

Marty, Please remove my image of the Cow Springs basin (which is currently the main image) on your http://uscavedivingteam.com/ website. This photo is being used without permission and I wish no association with you or your team. (also sent via PM)

Thanks,
Brandon

[thatcampbellkid]

I apologize for harsh comments earlier, but my intention was simply to raise awareness of what I had seen, I was just so blown away that this was happening and didn't understand it. I'm glad you've gone out of the way to make this work, but I just believe the rules are in place for a reason.

[T. Bix]

I got paired up with this guy 4 - 5 years ago at Ginnie. I definitely believe the report above. He came back from the dive I did with him with something like 800 psi. He made the comment to me after the dive that I was a strong swimmer and he just about ran out of air trying to keep up with me. ........

I got a message ....... We were between dives and he was by himself, he was diving sidemount and had a scooter. I had recently started sidemounting and was eager to see how others rigged their gear and was developing an interest in scooters. We struck up a conversation and ended up adding him to our team for a dive......... We politely informed him that he was on the wrong map and showed him where it was on the Ginnie map. He said, "hmm, I haven't been there but we can do whatever, I'll show you the Toxic Waste Tunnel on the way out and you all can drive my scooter around the gallery on the exit." Excited about the prospect of getting to drive a scooter but totally wigged out about diving with him we geared up.

Upon entering the water it was pretty obvious that he was a hot mess. ......His current escapades in Peacock don't surprise me at all. "

C'mon.... I don't know Marty at all but are you guys sure this is the same guy? Besides the age involved I really only see a hint of what I consider abusive at most and irresponsible at least. He says that the effects of diving on his 10 year old are unknown so much so that he is purchasing a doppler device to monitor ... (maybe experiment) those effects on his son. I dunno maybe Marty is on the cutting edge of dive medicine and age but I'm more than a bit worried when someone sounds as if they are performing medical experiments on their children. Please tell me I'm reading this wrong...

[MacLeod]

C'mon.... I don't know Marty at all but are you guys sure this is the same guy? Besides the age involved I really only see a hint of what I consider abusive at most and irresponsible at least. He says that the effects of diving on his 10 year old are unknown so much so that he is purchasing a doppler device to monitor ... (maybe experiment) those effects on his son. I dunno maybe Marty is on the cutting edge of dive medicine and age but I'm more than a bit worried when someone sounds as if they are performing medical experiments on their children. Please tell me I'm reading this wrong...

While I don't have an issue with a 10 year old diving (heck, that's how old I was when I started diving)--I do have a serious issue with someone taking a 10 year old who isn't, and cannot at that age be cavern certified into the cavern at Peacock--which is in direct violation of park rules. That's the real issue.