What is Missing from the Mill Pond Missing Diver Thread?

[Greenwood_60]

Madison Blue has names written on jump arrows arrows. I have never heard anyone complain about them.

[diveconjeff]

Sevreal weeks back, we were out to dinner with Jason Richards. He said after class his instructor made him dive with him for 6 months or so and then he got his card. I like that, we need instructors who will do that.

Sounds strangely like a mentor type relationship. Best way to go in my book. Too seldom used, but still available if you're lucky enough to come across one


Jeff
Diveconjeff@yahoo.com

[Sludge]

Sounds strangely like a mentor type relationship. Best way to go in my book.

Yes, Jamie was the best instructor I've ever seen. What was great was he had a following in Georgia like no other. He would go to cave country every couple of weeks or so, and current and former students would follow him around like the Pied Piper. Whichever spring he was at on a given day, there would be a dozen or so people to dive with, at varying levels of certification. I made many intro dives with his full cave graduates, and later when I was full cave I made dives with his intro divers. (This is the reason I have a policy that I will never refuse a dive with an intro or apprentice diver who asks me.)

One reason Jamie could do this was he had a full-time job and only expected his teaching income to break even - if at the end of the year his teaching income equaled his teaching expenses, he was happy.

[Merlin Rhoda]

While I do not think we need to start grading jumps difficulty wise, what would it hurt to put a name of the jump on the arrow marking it? While your tieing in, you look and confirm your where you think you are, and if your not, it's a chance to reorient yourself? I'm just talking about a name written on the arrow that is there already.
I've gotten over 100 dives in JB, I dive it ten times as much as anything else, and still I have seen very little of it, no map that I have ever seen shows even most of the cave, and I hear all the time, names of places that I have been, but don't know where it is, as I've never seen a map with many names on it.

+1

I appreciate labeled survey arrows that can be tied back to a map.

[cwick]

Yes, Jamie was the best instructor I've ever seen. What was great was he had a following in Georgia like no other. He would go to cave country every couple of weeks or so, and current and former students would follow him around like the Pied Piper. Whichever spring he was at on a given day, there would be a dozen or so people to dive with, at varying levels of certification. I made many intro dives with his full cave graduates, and later when I was full cave I made dives with his intro divers. (This is the reason I have a policy that I will never refuse a dive with an intro or apprentice diver who asks me.)

One reason Jamie could do this was he had a full-time job and only expected his teaching income to break even - if at the end of the year his teaching income equaled his teaching expenses, he was happy.

You bring up a good point Russell.
When making your mortgage payment depends on your teaching cave students, volume will become more important than quality.

[gasdiver]

Six months ago my buddy and I took a sm class with Edd. There were 3-4 students, an instructor candidate and Edd in the water at the same time. We had broken up into 2 groups to keep the teams small, but we all had the same dive plan. The dive before we had done the beanie tunnel and the horseshoe circuit. Yes, it was a lot of people going through these small tunnels, but everyone did a good job of watching their trim and finning technique. While it got a little dusty, it did not get blown out. The last dive was the squirrel/LST jump, the 90 deg right turn mentioned above. Edd led the first team through the tunnel while the second team swam up the main line to meet them at the exit. I was on the second team and when it was our turn to make this side jump we found that the first team had blown the viz to about 2-3 feet. (No finger pointing here as it has nothing to do with my point.) Edd was leading the dive and headed into the cloudy water and disappeared. I was the second diver, but I stopped and looked at Edd's light disappear into the fog bank. I had a decision to make, to proceed or not?

This dive was taking place after the lost student incident and I knew that we were diving the exact same tunnel where that event happened. I really wanted to see the passage and I had confidence in my skills even if this was only my 3rd dive in side mount configuration. My regular dive buddy had just been through the passage, with Edd, 5 minutes before. Obviously, I was diving with Edd and could not have been in better hands, so what was my hesitation? I knew I could make the dive, but I asked myself "if Edd were not leading the dive, would I proceed?" The honest answer was no. In my opinion, entering a sm passage that was already blown out and only having 3 side mount dives under my belt was foolish. So, I decided not to proceed. The passage will be there the next time I visit, the visibility will be better and I'll have more side mount dives under my wing.

Did I feel like a wus? Sure did, especially when Edd told me it cleared up 20' in. Do I regret not following Edd? Yes and no. Yes because I don't want to be intimidated by a little dirty water and look like a chicken s**t to my dive buddies. No, because you have to be honest with yourself when it comes to taking risks. Just because Edd was there did not mean it was a smart thing for me to do.

The bottom line is that these incidents will only stop when cave divers become honest with themselves. As we all know, this is probably never going to happen. I'm all for better training, but instructors are not going to solve this issue. I don't have any problem with better maps and/or markers and would love to see them, but they are not going to solve the problem either. The good news is that we have a positive ending to several incidents that could have turned out very different. These incidents will be shared throughout the community and let's hope they will prompt more divers to be honest with themselves and not let any kind of pressure push them into a situation they are not prepared for.

[GeorgiaDoc]

Just for the record, I have no problem with labeling the first arrow to a jump. I just do not think it will solve the problems as much as personal responsibility for where you are and what you are doing.

[Greenwood_60]

Just for the record, I have no problem with labeling the first arrow to a jump. I just do not think it will solve the problems as much as personal responsibility for where you are and what you are doing.

I'm just proposing a solution for what seems to be the issue here; pushing in to this passage and thinking you are somewhere else.

[Merlin Rhoda]

I'm just proposing a solution for what seems to be the issue here; pushing in to this passage and thinking you are somewhere else.

I like labeled arrows but I don't think they solve the issue of people going where they should not be.

Know your limits and have the discipline to turn your dive well before you hit them.

[Benderr]

I like labeled arrows but I don't think they solve the issue of people going where they should not be.

It won't, but it will solve the issue of people going there because they think they're somewhere else.