What is Missing from the Mill Pond Missing Diver Thread?

[Greenwood_60]

I like labeled arrows but I don't think they solve the issue of people going where they should not be.

Know your limits and have the discipline to turn your dive well before you hit them.

I agree, but I don't think that was the issue here. These people were doing "trust me" dives, based on second hand information. "Go in, it will turn to the right, go through a bit of a restriction, then it will loop back around." You think you're in the right place, and this restriction must open up just ahead, so you keep pushing. In that exact situation, I think more than 3 diver make that same mistake.

[tmcdonal]

So we're talking about this passage?


I've taken that jump. It's an awkward passage. IIRC it's a bit of a vertical fissure or an inverted T. I remember having to turn a bit sideways to proceed.

I didn't see anyone answer this. There was an old post from 2002 that described some of the jumps in the front of JB (http://www.cavediver.net/old_reports/cdf_report_018.htm). This is one of the pictures (inline link is now dead):

I've done this multiple times in BM. As I recall it gets a bit dusty, but following this path, it's not what I would consider SM. Did this diver (these divers) take a different jump off of this? (Granted it was just me and my buddy and not 4 divers, which would be a bit much).

-Tom

[Merlin Rhoda]

I agree, but I don't think that was the issue here. These people were doing "trust me" dives, based on second hand information. "Go in, it will turn to the right, go through a bit of a restriction, then it will loop back around." You think you're in the right place, and this restriction must open up just ahead, so you keep pushing. In that exact situation, I think more than 3 diver make that same mistake.

I hear you. I just think the mistake is one of divers going forward in conditions that exceed their ability. Perhaps the "trust me" aspect is the problem. If you get to the point where you'd rather go forward than back a mistake has already been made.

I accept that a sign saying "warning will robinson, this passage is not for you" will keep some people from accidentally taking it thinking it is something else. I just think it's a mistake for them to not be evaluating the conditions for themselves in real time.

Does a sign that says "Left to SUDDEN DOOM, Right to pie and icecream" cause someone to continue on the right fork even if the conditions happen to be particularly miserable? "The sign said this way is easy so we should just keep going and it's bound to get better just around the bend..."

I've taken lots of jumps (in MX) that I quickly realized were not for me; it's a simple thing to turn, pull the jump, and look for a better passage.

I feel for the folks who got in trouble, I just think of this more as a training and mindset issue.

Respectfully,
Merlin

[ianr33]

While I do not think we need to start grading jumps difficulty wise, what would it hurt to put a name of the jump on the arrow marking it? While your tieing in, you look and confirm your where you think you are, and if your not, it's a chance to reorient yourself? I'm just talking about a name written on the arrow that is there already.

3 different jumps go of the one set of arrows at this point. Maybe just write real small?

[JamesK]

3 different jumps go of the one set of arrow at this point. Maybe just write real small?

Then maybe an arrow on the beginning of the jump line itself.

[RN]

So we're talking about this passage?

Yes, that's the passage.


From what I understand the team realized they were in the wrong passage shortly after making the turn to the right. What happened was they didn't pay attention to the line wrap at that turn and he wasn't able to find the line leading out. Apparently, he let go of the line he was on before finding the line and when he found the line it was the same line he had let go of, which led back into the passage. Then when he got to the end of the line he went off of it and followed the wall without deploying a safety. This is second-hand information so I won't vouch for it's accuracy but I can see this happening.