What is Missing from the Mill Pond Missing Diver Thread?

[Sludge]

Perhaps cave/technical diving instructors should publish their pass/fail rates?

My cave instructor never failed a single student.

Of course, he didn't pass everyone, either. What he did was teach the course and if/when you learned all the skills, he gave you your card. It might be on the first weekend or it might be on the tenth weekend (he didn't charge you to come along on subsequent trips and dive with whomever he was teaching), but as soon as you learned all the skills, you got your card. If you gave up before ever getting the card, I guess you got an incomplete. But he didn't fail you.

[Kevin Carlisle]

My cave instructor never failed a single student.

Of course, he didn't pass everyone, either. What he did was teach the course and if/when you learned all the skills, he gave you your card. It might be on the first weekend or it might be on the tenth weekend (he didn't charge you to come along on subsequent trips and dive with whomever he was teaching), but as soon as you learned all the skills, you got your card. If you gave up before ever getting the card, I guess you got an incomplete. But he didn't fail you.

Sevreal weeks back, we were out to dinner with Jason Richards. He said after class his instructor made him dive with him for 6 months or so and then he got his card. I like that, we need instructors who will do that.

[whodunit68]

Sevreal weeks back, we were out to dinner with Jason Richards. He said after class his instructor made him dive with him for 6 months or so and then he got his card. I like that, we need instructors who will do that.

those are both really, really good. I was in Mexico doing my full cave a couple years back and it's not the same scale as you guys are talking but I had to do several days of extra dives/skills (mostly valve drills) to pass. My wallet wasn't happy but I'm glad it happened.

[Ben M]

My cave instructor never failed a single student.

Of course, he didn't pass everyone, either. What he did was teach the course and if/when you learned all the skills, he gave you your card. It might be on the first weekend or it might be on the tenth weekend (he didn't charge you to come along on subsequent trips and dive with whomever he was teaching), but as soon as you learned all the skills, you got your card. If you gave up before ever getting the card, I guess you got an incomplete. But he didn't fail you.

You know, while I agree with this for many things, some people just don't have any business in underwater caves. Diving skills is one thing, but there are temperaments and attitudes that don't need to be there.

[Sludge]

... Jason Richards. He said after class his instructor ...

Yes, we had the same instructor.

[Sludge]

Diving skills is one thing, but there are temperaments and attitudes that don't need to be there.

He felt that having the right attitude and temperament were "necessary skills."

[Greenwood_60]

So we're talking about this passage?


I've taken that jump. It's an awkward passage. IIRC it's a bit of a vertical fissure or an inverted T. I remember having to turn a bit sideways to proceed. I was second in a team of two. I stopped at the limit of my comfort, while the lead diver proceeded a bit further on. 10 or 20 feet later he made his own decision to turn the dive. It's not a nice passage. I don't know how much further someone could have pushed in there, the lead diver would have had a much better view than I did.

That being said, I can imagine a situation where you "know" the cave is passable, so you keep pushing. Simply not aware you are not where you think you are.

Diver should know better. There is no question. How long can we keep complaining about the quality of training and the quality of divers, when there is very little accountability or incentive pushing the industry to change the quality of either. The only incentive at the moment is for instructors and agencies to crank out certifications. The fact that you can still get quality cave training speaks volumes about the nature of people in this sport.

We have to adapt to the decrease in average quality and increase in quantity of divers.

Maybe all that's needed is a tag at the start of the line with the name of the passage. You can have them done with the name of the discoverer and year it was first lined. Add a little historical significance to the caves, and give them an absolute indication of the passage they are actually in.

[floridakid]

You know, while I agree with this for many things, some people just don't have any business in underwater caves. Diving skills is one thing, but there are temperaments and attitudes that don't need to be there.

You beat me to it. Almost everyone can eventually learn the skills. Most people can eventually gain the situational awareness. But there are people that will never have the proper attitude and are dangerous to themselves and everyone around them.

An instructor I know actually refused to teach a prospective student an overhead class because the instructor felt that the prospective student did not have the proper attitude for technical diving. I find that very commendable because there are too many people out there that are willing to hand out cards in exchange for money.

[Merlin Rhoda]

What can a sign tell me about tight or silty passage that my own eyes cannot?

Perhaps some people accept more risk and want to go grinding along through passage they don't fit through; is a sign going to stop that type or embolden them?

[a64pilot]

While I do not think we need to start grading jumps difficulty wise, what would it hurt to put a name of the jump on the arrow marking it? While your tieing in, you look and confirm your where you think you are, and if your not, it's a chance to reorient yourself? I'm just talking about a name written on the arrow that is there already.
I've gotten over 100 dives in JB, I dive it ten times as much as anything else, and still I have seen very little of it, no map that I have ever seen shows even most of the cave, and I hear all the time, names of places that I have been, but don't know where it is, as I've never seen a map with many names on it.