When Things Go Wrong

[CaveMD]

Rob, I wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone that there are people that have navigational information that they do not wish to share with anyone else, except their closest friends, particularly not with people coming from out of state, some with students, who have never been in the system.

Kinda sounds bad doesn't it? Maybe its better to say it doesn't appear on any map?

From the passages I have found not on the map they are left off for the safety of others. This one time it may not have worked because they found it by accident. I would bet a lot more incidents have been adverted by keeping inexperienced unprepared people from attempting it intentionally.

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[JamesK]

From the passages I have found not on the map they are left off for the safety of others. This one time it may not have worked because they found it by accident. I would bet a lot more incidents have been adverted by keeping inexperienced unprepared people from attempting it.

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The only problem I would see is that if things are left off the map, which we know is true in a lot of caves, if the jumps are still marked in some way shape or form, or are easily visible. If someone unfamiliar with the cave looks at the map and plans to take the second jump on the right, and then in reality what they really need is the thrid jump on the right because the true second has been left off the map, they end up somewhere they should not be.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Here's an idea, recognize when a passage is too gnarly for ones own personal skillset and don't go in?

[JamesK]

Here's an idea, recognize when a passage is too gnarly for ones own personal skillset and don't go in?

I agree 100%.

[Sludge]

Here's an idea, recognize when a passage is too gnarly for ones own personal skillset and don't go in?

I have that one down pat - you know, when the line is no longer gold!

[cerich]

I have that one down pat - you know, when the line is no longer gold!

when the line has a 1/4 of silt siting on top is a hint as well

[Tegg]

Rob, I wouldn't be so quick to tell everyone that there are people that have navigational information that they do not wish to share with anyone else, except their closest friends, particularly not with people coming from out of state, some with students, who have never been in the system.

Kinda sounds bad doesn't it? Maybe its better to say it doesn't appear on any map?

Maybe those "some with students" who have never been in the system should do their own dives there first and learn the system before taking students? Just a simple thought from a simple minded guy.

If an instructor knows a system, they can provide all the nav information needed for a student without a printed map in front of them. Stick maps drawn by hand is what my instructor used when printed maps were not available. Seemed to work well for my class.

[Wizard]

Here's an idea, recognize when a passage is too gnarly for ones own personal skillset and don't go in?

You are correct Sir!

I also agree to the post stating all jumps and tunnels in the first 1000 feet or so be on a map. I went in one time looking for the second jump. It was the second "marked" jump actually, we took the second jump and after 100 feet figured out it was a s***hole and turned around. The map showed no such place, but it was lined so therefor one would think it was the right one.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I also agree to the post stating all jumps and tunnels in the first 1000 feet or so be on a map. I went in one time looking for the second jump. It was the second "marked" jump actually, we took the second jump and after 100 feet figured out it was a s***hole and turned around. The map showed no such place, but it was lined so therefor one would think it was the right one.

That begs for the question... who's job is it to provide a complete map?

None of us should NEED a map, its nice to have, but almost none are truly complete. You have to keep in mind that alot of those shitholes actually are on the map, so creating a dive plan by map without any knowledge of the passage itself may not be the best way to get the dive you were looking for...

There's nobody here/there/anywhere to keep you from surveying and creating a map for yourself or for the entire public.

[Wizard]

There's nobody here/there/anywhere to keep you from surveying and creating a map for yourself or for the entire public.

Yes there is...........My Wife.