Sad but true

[sskasser]

The NACD and CDS are both volunteer organizations made up of volunteer boards of directors. Each board has 5 or 6 people on it, who, good or bad, volunteer their time, as in unpaid, to do the work of the agency. The boards make the decisions over what is done by each agency.

That's a maximum of 12 phone calls and 12 conversations directly with the people charged with making these decisions.

If I were receiving such a phone call, I would want to hear a) the specific issue and related facts b) the specific solution desired c) an appreciation for the facts that i) I'm not law enforcement ii) I'm not a god with limitless power iii) I'm taking my time to listen to your issues instead of diving, doing paid work, spending time with my family, or just plopped on the couch watching sports.

If the desired response is not received, the caller has the option of publishing the results of such phone calls and running for a position on the board in the next election based on a platform of accomplishing the desired results.

If you're not a member of the agency, or ineligible to run for the board, change those facts or seek another avenue to achieve your desired result.

I don't necessarily agree with every thing these agencies decide, nor do I have any interest whatsoever in holding a position on the board. I do, however, prefer actively seeking out means to achieve what's important to me over whining about people not doing what I want them to do.

[harrym]

No one else has answered to my email...

For good reason

[harrym]

Its been pretty well documented that Steve G has removed people's jump lines and personal markers while other teams were in the water, in order to install his lines and arrows. I can't see how the agencies can turn a blind eye to such facts, but they absolutely do.

Complete lies. A few years ago we replaced a broken line, after coordinating a mutual game plan with other divers at the site, agreeing who was going where and when on the first dive, second dive, etc. Basically we went our separate ways and rotated to a different passageway on each subsequent dive. Everything went well and according to the plan. Later multiple people made all kinds of blatanly false accusations, just like the idiot's claims I quoted above. It's all generated by a bunch of people interested in petty power plays.

Sad.

[phillip1]

Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Its been pretty well documented that Steve G has removed people's jump lines and personal markers while other teams were in the water, in order to install his lines and arrows. I can't see how the agencies can turn a blind eye to such facts, but they absolutely do.

It is a well know fact in the Mexican cave diving community that Steve G systematically replaces people's arrows in caves with no warning and with no apparent reason other than some kind of weird mental issue.
As for training agencies not being responsible for the action/behavior of one of they're own instructors that is like saying that the school board is not responsible for the actions of school teacher when that board has been warned repeatedly of such actions.

I think training agencies should be required to DO MORE THAN NOTHING!!! at the very least

However I do agree 100% that taking matters into your own hands is the best and in the case of cave diving safety almost always the only way to actually achieve results, which is why I think that if this problem were to be super publicized and become openly public worldwide instead of a semi obscure local Mexican cave problem maybe this guy would stop as he would loose clients and get a full international bad rep.

[TONY CHANEY]

Hey Phil,

By the way, I have written confirmation by "Vandal"#1 that if we put propper arrows, high viz, bigger, good quality and put names and distances on them he will not touch them! He even seems to like the idea...

So instead of asking fellow divers for money to buy better arrows, why not ask him to, at the least, to buy better arrows if he is fixed on replacing them?

Other than that I am with Phillip on this issue...leave the original explorers arrows alone or at least follow Phillip's suggestions for when to move / replace arrows. (IMHO these suggestions should be put in the cave diving training manuals).

[NEON]

Complete lies. A few years ago we replaced a broken line, after coordinating a mutual game plan with other divers at the site, agreeing who was going where and when on the first dive, second dive, etc. Basically we went our separate ways and rotated to a different passageway on each subsequent dive. Everything went well and according to the plan. Later multiple people made all kinds of blatanly false accusations, just like the idiot's claims I quoted above. It's all generated by a bunch of people interested in petty power plays.

Sad.

Lies they are not. This is neither the first nor the last time this issue is being brought up. Calling fellow forum members "idiots" because they seem to have an opinion different than your own does not give you much credibility. Is that the way you approach medical issues as well?

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Hearsay is not fact. While I've heard these same stories, I have trouble believing jump lines and personal markers were returned while the divers that placed them were in the cave.

Its hearsay from me, I agree. But, is it hearsay when its from the person who laid the jump reporting that it was taken? Its on TDS as a first person account.

It's all generated by a bunch of people interested in petty power plays.

LOL, I don't want power, and don't really have any interest in MX. I preffer to dive where I can drink the water, not get shot/kidnapped, not have my stuff stolen, and I can trust where I get my gas fills.

[TraceMalin]

These threads remind me of the Twilight series, but it sounds like a great opportunity to help.

[Dave1981]

not get shot/kidnapped, not have my stuff stolen, and I can trust where I get my gas fills.

Off topic, but the Mayan coast is a safe place.

Saying you're going to get shot and killed in Playa/Tulum is about as accurate as me quoting detroits' murder rate and saying that's why I won't dive ginnie.

[Squirrel Girl]

These threads remind me of the Twilight series, but it sounds like a great opportunity to help.

This thread reminds me of the movie "Groundhog Day."

I feel pretty safe in the Tulum area, too.