Sad but true

[apitkin]

This thread reminds me of the movie "Groundhog Day."

I feel pretty safe in the Tulum area, too.

I bet you have some good stories about unfriendly Mexican locals, just not in the Tulum area?

[Squirrel Girl]

I bet you have some good stories about unfriendly Mexican locals, just not in the Tulum area?

I've actually had few bad experiences in MX. We've been shut out of caves on several occasions, but that's not quite the same as a "bad" experience. Certainly there are some horrific stories, like Don Broussard who witnessed a rope being cut while a woman was climbing. She miraculously landed on a ledge and wasn't hurt (or wasn't seriously hurt). But me? Not so much.

[phillip1]

There is a big big difference between uncool local divers just being uncool and unfriendly leading to a bad Mexio experience and a local diver systematically changing everyone's line arrows around, I don't buy the bogus "safety" arrow size, vandal#1 has some kind of vendetta/mental problem which is fine many people do, only in this case it goes against all cave exploration/diving etiquette and more importantly it could be creating a potentially dangerous situation.

[harrym]

Lies they are not. This is neither the first nor the last time this issue is being brought up. Calling fellow forum members "idiots" because they seem to have an opinion different than your own does not give you much credibility. Is that the way you approach medical issues as well?

Very impressive.

In generally, mounting a personal attack without any supporting facts is known as a very primitive debate tactic, generally perpetrated by someone who either (a) has no facts with which to debate, or (b) is intellectually incapable of anything more sophisticated, or (c) both.

I have facts. In the case of which I speak, (1) We had the land owner's permission to replace a #18 cave line that we knew to be broken in a teritiary pasageway, (2) we coordinated with the two other dive teams at the cenote and all agreed on a timing and sequence of dives in order to stay out of each other's way, (3) the dive plan was executed as planned without any problems, (4) we were later accused of changing other diver's lines and line arrows during their dives, and (5) the people making these accusations weren't even there.

These facts demonstrate unequivocally that some cave divers in the area BLATANTLY LIE in order to tarnish the reputations of those with whom they disagree.

Squirrel Girl, I have been going to Cozumel/Riviera Maya every year for many years, and I agree that Tulum is very safe. In fact, I have experiences that prove that I am safer in Tulum than I am in the USA. I have met some very special people down there who went out of their way to assist us, and refused any financial compensation. Good people.

[apitkin]

I've actually had few bad experiences in MX. We've been shut out of caves on several occasions, but that's not quite the same as a "bad" experience. Certainly there are some horrific stories, like Don Broussard who witnessed a rope being cut while a woman was climbing. She miraculously landed on a ledge and wasn't hurt (or wasn't seriously hurt). But me? Not so much.

I just finished William Steele's book. That truly was a very lucky escape. It sounds like the locals got less unfriendly there as time went on.

[Squirrel Girl]

I just finished William Steele's book. That truly was a very lucky escape. It sounds like the locals got less unfriendly there as time went on.

I really liked his book. He had a few mistakes from our trip, but he recounted that trip as he remembered it, so ya gotta take it as it was.

Yes, overall, I'd say things are better down there.

[NEON]

Very impressive.

In generally, mounting a personal attack without any supporting facts is known as a very primitive debate tactic, generally perpetrated by someone who either (a) has no facts with which to debate, or (b) is intellectually incapable of anything more sophisticated, or (c) both.

I have facts. In the case of which I speak, (1) We had the land owner's permission to replace a #18 cave line that we knew to be broken in a teritiary pasageway, (2) we coordinated with the two other dive teams at the cenote and all agreed on a timing and sequence of dives in order to stay out of each other's way, (3) the dive plan was executed as planned without any problems, (4) we were later accused of changing other diver's lines and line arrows during their dives, and (5) the people making these accusations weren't even there.

These facts demonstrate unequivocally that some cave divers in the area BLATANTLY LIE in order to tarnish the reputations of those with whom they disagree.

Squirrel Girl, I have been going to Cozumel/Riviera Maya every year for many years, and I agree that Tulum is very safe. In fact, I have experiences that prove that I am safer in Tulum than I am in the USA. I have met some very special people down there who went out of their way to assist us, and refused any financial compensation. Good people.

In essence you are stating that no questionable actions took place during the SINGLE INSTANCE of you participating in a "broken line replacement".

From these "FACTS" you then draw the conclusion that ALL claims made by fellow cave divers about stolen, replaced personal and survey markers / rerouted lines must be BLATANT LIES.

It seems pretty naive, do you not agree?

[phillip1]

It is a FACT that vandal#1 systematically replaces everyone's line arrows in all caves in Mexico with no warning and for no apparent reason, this is the cave diving equivalent of surfing's dropping in on set waves and giving people the finger in the lineup, the cave diving version is much worse because changing line arrows could be potentially dangerous to people other than yourself.

[Sludge]

replaces everyone's line arrows in all caves in Mexico

Sometimes a little hyperbole's a good thing; other times... not so much.

[sskasser]

It is a FACT that vandal#1 systematically replaces everyone's line arrows in all caves in Mexico with no warning and for no apparent reason, this is the cave diving equivalent of surfing's dropping in on set waves and giving people the finger in the lineup, the cave diving version is much worse because changing line arrows could be potentially dangerous to people other than yourself.

Nope, not possible that he replaces "EVERYONE'S" arrows in "ALL caves in Mexico." I've been to Mexico. I've put in cave arrows. They were there when I came back.

Your message will likely be better received if you steer clear of the hyperbole.