Exploration lines and arrows

[Attchoum]

that you guys like the drama,

You do know that the real problem is bettewn few diver that been here for so long that they belived they own the cave (kind of)

There is a lot of new cave diver that live here permanently that don't do politic, that don't try to convince people of the only truth and that don't relly on arrow to navigate in a cave.

Just to say that you should not take everyone in mexico into the same bag.

[Jim Wyatt]

Just to say that you should not take everyone in mexico into the same bag.

You are correct & I am sorry if it seems as if I implied such.

[NEON]

I did not swear while addressing you & would appreciate the same consideration.

My apologies. I was reflecting on the general tone of the replies received.

Several of us came to the conclusion that you guys like the drama, and like it to be played out in public much more than you'd like a solution, or heaven forbid co-operation between conflicted parties. It seems you get some new cave divers down there every year or so, show them your dirty laundry & influence them to show it on here, yet again.

Let me make it clear - I do not live in Mexico and have no commercial interest there. Consider me a "tourist". The "lines and arrows" situation has not improved over the years and it is no wonder that people unaware of it until now would express some concern. When these people get brushed off on the forums I feel that its only just to put things into perspective (my observations are based on a number of visits over the last few years and numerous conversations with various instructors and fellow divers).

It is not about "fix"-ing this problem for me (there is no need to address me in a paternalistic manner).
It is about the licensing bodies taking a stand. Swiping it all under the rug is not a solution.

[limeyx]

Why not even rename the forum - Exclusively North Florida Oriented Cave Diving Forum?

I am beginning to think it already has been honestly.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

wanna go?

Yeah

[Walter Pickel]

This is a problem that we have in mexico and if you ask me, the problem come from the fact that there is no comminucation in mexico. Yes of course we greet each other when we meet at the cenote but that's it. Everyone is doing is small stuff in is corner and then go home.

A read a statistic that about 10 000 recreationnal diver come to do cenote tour per year. Dos Ojos is probably the most popular one. I report to two differents safety officer that the bat cave line is broken at 7 differents places. 2 of those place was fix whit normal 24 line. one of the safety officer even told me that he have gold line availaible... it was 6 month ago!!!

no one is moving.

That is unacceptable. It is almost as if some people dont really want to fix problems down there!

[FW]

...It is not about "fix"-ing this problem for me (there is no need to address me in a paternalistic manner).
It is about the licensing bodies taking a stand. Swiping it all under the rug is not a solution.

There isn't a lot "licensing bodies" can do, especially in another country. The best they can do in their own country is revoke an instructor's card. That can only be done if the instructor breaks some rule regarding training. As far as I can see, this has nothing to do with instruction.

Here is my best advice to all parties involved (or watching from afar):
There were many "line wars" in the US in the early years. Different groups had different ideas of how lines should be laid, and where permanent lines should start. You could go in a cave, and find the line starting 100 feet into the cave one day, and come back a week later and find it starting 400 feet in. That is why the DiveRite red reel holds 400' of line.

The solution was the owner(s) of the entrance. Tegg is right, it is hard to know who actually owns the cave, but access to the entrance can be controlled. The owners (Ginnie Springs, the state parks dept, etc) finally stopped the "line wars" by saying that anyone found moving a line would loose access to the property. The line committees were formed around that same time period.

[Attchoum]

Unfortunately, most of the owner here in Mexico don't give a dam. As long as someone pay them to use some part of they land that other wise will be useless, they are happy.

Most of them have no clue what going on under. the other day I was talking to one of the owner and he get really surprise when I told him that is cave is link to the one of is neighbor. I told him that is cave have something like 10 kilometer of passage and he did not believe me. How can I them explain him what's our concern about the size of the line...

[gasdiver]

Etienne,
Did you show him a map?

[JCDdiver]

Very true, I've not been to Mexico

You're missing out on some great cave diving!