This is why the attitude...

[WEPIV]

Excellent post. One of the best I remember.

I agree.
Thanks Jim for taking the time to write this.
I still don't use a scooter in a cave based on a promise I made to my wife after the Eagle's Nest incident you mentioned (which happened back in 2004 I believe). She asked me not to do that based on that incident and I have kept that promise. (Also I like to swim....)
If we take the time to explain ourselves on these forums like this and it gets divers to think about certain things, and it makes them safer, then it is worth it. And since there are new divers coming on here fairly frequently -- and not everyone searches past forums -- these topics come up every now and again.

[adam0321]

Rob,

I think part of the concern is that the stories are confusing-

I agree I am not very good at explaining my self some times.
Which would imply he knows the answer to this-
We dont get to choose what scooters we buy so I have never had to look at them. We dive what they tell us to, and they are quite different from anything you guys use

never 6took a scooter in a cave before full cave plus at least 50
Then, there's a bit of concern knowing he's already stage diving without understanding of stage math, as his instructor pointed out-
I have never stage dove other then my full cave class, so I dont know where that is comming from. I guess I could have told rob I was not going to dive a stage in the class. but I am not stage diving




I'm willing to bet that a lot gets misunderstood on the internet, but let's be fair on both accounts, it's quite clear why there's concern, even if it's based upon misunderstanding.

I agree and I think alot of people jump to conclusions. but this thread was not just about me, but about the communitys overall approach to outsiders and noobs

[adam0321]

and obviously aside from bad spelling I cant quote right

[Kelly Jessop]

There are three kinds of men: the ones that learn by reading, the ones that learn by observation, and the ones that have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

There are 3 cave diver attitudes-Darwinian events a. hurt our public interpretation of the sport and can harm our present and future access b. remove impaired cave divers from the gene pool c. provide for cheap gear. One I share,the others I have heard on multiple occassions

[chicken]

Here you go: http://www.gue.com/files/Quest/QuestSpring2005.pdf

I'm not sure that GUE actually wants this file to be public, but you can find it via a simple Google search...

Would you try a complicated google search for me? The link doesn't work. BTW, how do you think I discovered you have to be a member to read the article...via a google search.

[Michael Stroeck]

Still works for me, and I'm not a member. Don't know what's going on here. However:

Link doesn't work ... Try this http://owenpetchey.staff.shef.ac.uk/...Spring2005.pdf

[chicken]

Still works for me, and I'm not a member. Don't know what's going on here. However:

This link works http://owenpetchey.staff.shef.ac.uk/...Spring2005.pdf

The link you provided does not.

[Michael Stroeck]

The link you provided does not.

Except that it does

http://imgur.com/y5fV1

[cegator]

How do you explain the deaths of several very experienced divers with thousands of dives and years under their belt?

[AB8CD]

Interesting thread...

People asking questions and hoping for specific answers and getting a variety of responses... along with some judgments... maybe with the judgements being on or off target.

I suppose that's what a forum is in the end. We base our opinions on perceptions gleaned from previous posts (which are search-able and so hold us accountable).

My regret is my inability to see some of you and visit face to face.. to chat over a beer next to a fire, play a song on guitar and sing songs from the 70's... and then to dive together... or... to avoid you all together.

Then again... maybe it would be you avoiding me... Nah... I'm just to much fun to be around!