Wisconsin cave diving!

[FW]

There was some discussion of the WDNR rules on TAGnet. I thought this might be interesting.

While the materials below are not as cheap as bleach, they are not as
destructive either. Bleach & nylon are not compatible. so this is a
concern for vertical cavers as well as cave divers.

Lysol® IC Quaternary Disinfectant Cleaner with a minimum of 0.3% quaternary
ammonium compound –
1:128 dilution or 1 oz:1 gal water Lysol® All-purpose Professional
Cleaner -with a minimum of 0.3% quaternary ammonium compound Formula
409® Antibacterial All-Purpose Cleaner -with a minimum of 0.3%
quaternary ammonium compound
For more information, refer to WNS on the NSS home page.

[Tamara Thomsen]

Had my first meeting with our WDNR liaison...just wanted to thank everyone for their input and suggestions. Writing up our suggested policy for cave diving this evening for him- I'll let you know what the feed back is!

[JDostal]

Great news. Thank you so much for putting in all of this effort for the benefit of a pretty niche community in the midwest. It is very appreciated.

[jlillest]

Lysol® IC Quaternary Disinfectant Cleaner with a minimum of 0.3% quaternary
ammonium compound –
1:128 dilution or 1 oz:1 gal water Lysol® All-purpose Professional
Cleaner -with a minimum of 0.3% quaternary ammonium compound Formula
409® Antibacterial All-Purpose Cleaner -with a minimum of 0.3%
quaternary ammonium compound

I thought I might add to Forrest's post by saying that all this is straight from the VA Cave Board's and later the Fish & Wildlife Service's recommendations for decontamination for WNS spores. Quaternary Ammonium, the active ingredient in most but not all 409 & Lysol brand cleaners has been found to kill all Geomyces (White Nose) spores when used according to the FWS protocols:

http://www.fws.gov/WhiteNoseSyndrome...col_073110.pdf

While bleach is an option under the protocol, the Quat was added as an option for life-safety equipment (ropes, harnesses, etc.) that has been shown to degrade when used with bleach. This came after the hard work of folks such as Hazel Barton who did a lot of the research. The creation of a protocol within the state of VA as well as the Federal FWS came through the hard work of our hardworking bat folks in VA (Rick @ DGIF & Wil @ DCR) as well as the Butler Cave Conservation Society, the Cave Conservancy of the VAs and the VA Cave Board. Without all this hard work, caving would not have been allowed in the state of VA at the levels that it did during the last three years since White NOse was first discovered here.

Tamara, keep up the hard work. The success that we had in VA came because of the hard work that people like yourself did here. Suggest to them to leave decontamination protocols open to new chemicals that can be proven to kill the spores of Geomyces so that they can be added if they can also be shown to be safe for dive gear in case Quat is not an option.

-Jon

PS It should be noted that household Lysol typically does not contain enough Quat for Decon protocols. Be sure to look for professional grade Lysol if you need to find it.

[Tamara Thomsen]

I wanted to give everyone a little update. I wrote up a proposal for an outright exemption for cave divers remaining in the water so that they can use gear from other states with little to no inconvenience. I then compiled suggestions from posts here and from others working hard in the field to formulate a protocal for divers sump diving and dealing with harsh chemicals v. life support equipment. This was submitted to the WDNR before the holidays. I recieved notice that these were evaluated by Wisconsin staffers and sent up the USFWS for review just prior to Jan. 1. Last week however the original rules concerning WNS and entering caves, decontamination, etc. were sent up to the legislative committies- I'm not certain how they are going to deal with the exemptions currently under review for cave diving, etc. One of our divers, Ethan Brodsky, has written to the chair of the State Senate Natural Resources and Environment Committee to make him aware of the situation.

[FW]

Good luck up there! It could effect cave diving all over the country, even in Florida.

[JeffBerry]

Hey heres a cool thing that came from all the fun DNR crap!

outlawcavedivers
www.outlawcavedivers.com Sells t-shirts, sweatshirts for outlaw cave divers. Outlaw Cave Divers in Wisconsin Cave diving, florida cave diving, missouri cave diving at roubidoux springs

[Tamara Thomsen]

I just got protocal suggestions back from USFW and WDNR....Does anyone know the ramifications of shoaking a full set of dive gear in "quaternary ammonium detergent"? Will this have detrimental effects on any materials, ect?

[FW]

I just got protocal suggestions back from USFW and WDNR....Does anyone know the ramifications of shoaking a full set of dive gear in "quaternary ammonium detergent"? Will this have detrimental effects on any materials, ect?

Check post #51. I haven't tried it, but it is supposed to be safer than bleach.

[Tamara Thomsen]

Check post #51. I haven't tried it, but it is supposed to be safer than bleach.

It's ok with nylon, but what will this do to latex or rebreather parts? What about repeated rinsing in this stuff- any worries?