Running Reels In Cave Class

[FW]

OK, you and Moses are the exceptions!

Tom Mount too. There are others, but most have passed away.

Also Moses cheated, he parted the Red Sea, but didn't actually dive

[Kelly Jessop]

OK, you and Moses are the exceptions!

I think some people on this forum couldn't have gotten their Abe Davis, because he wasn't born yet.

[OFG-1]

Well maybe not ALL

I spoke with your younger brother, Methuselah, and he said that you did take some classes at one time.

[Dominick Gheesling]

[FW]

I spoke with your younger brother, Methuselah, and he said that you did take some classes at one time.

He must be getting senile

[cavemark]

Tom Mount too. There are others, but most have passed away.

Also Moses cheated, he parted the Red Sea, but didn't actually dive

Eyewitness account? ��

[Nitrogenius]

I wonder.
There are some weird things that are taught and the former students will argue that is the gospel. For example, someone is teaching students that having line arrows facing the direction of travel is okay even if it contradicts the line arrows that are there, because there is a difference between permanent and temporary line arrows. This comes up on SB frequently , and you explain why this is wrong, but they will defend that to their dying breath ( unfortunately literally). You have to question if your cave training taught you things that counter-intuitive, then you need to question all facets of your training, and mentorship becomes critical.

its is not "someone" that is teaching that way.. To my own studies of this very specific topic that is how it is taught EVERYWHEREELSE outside the US.
As I use my own form of REMs this is a lesser topic for me personally, but that falls under area specific topics rather than weird things of individuals and I would also argue that it would be counter-intuitive to do it the US way. I get the arguments both ways, but surely there is no black/white right wrong.
Placing an arrow against the direction topwards your own verified exit just because the main arrows show differently (to a nonverified exit that might be potentially closer, but might also have restrictions etc. etc you have no idea how close etc etc. is surely problematic as well and not really intuitive.

[Nitrogenius]

This would be a sad dumbing down of basic training and the learning of a key skill. Any student having received this training has to question the quality of their over all training, and if the quality of their class has really prepared them to handle an emergency and survive.

well I had come across this already 6 or 7 years ago in a web report some German guy had posted in a german forum about his cave training in Florida.
I could not quite believe what I had read so I contacted the guy and he confirmed. Also in training they did not run a line to OW at the ear in Ginnie.
"Because the flow would spit you out anyways and laying a line there is messy" was apparently the reason the instructor was passing on to their students..

[Kelly Jessop]

I get the arguments both ways, but surely there is no black/white right wrong.
Placing an arrow against the direction topwards your own verified exit just because the main arrows show differently (to a nonverified exit that might be potentially closer, but might also have restrictions etc. etc you have no idea how close etc etc. is surely problematic as well and not really intuitive.

We can agree to disagree, but this is wrong on so many levels, and has shown to be a factor in one fatality and some near incidents. There is no such thing as a permanent or temporary line arrow, no matter what personalization you do to it-ever. If you are in a silt out/lights out, or air share, and stressed, then are you going to feel the arrow for specific details, or touch it and say that is the correct way out. Nonverified exit is not valid, you verify that exit, or use the current line arrows. Ask the team in Madison that died when there was a silt out close to the time the half hitch shifted. There was a huge silt out, and the downloaded dive computer showed they traversed back and forth to determine their exit, and the turn point was a line arrow facing the wrong direction due to a hasty line repair. There have been many incidents where a team almost perished due to line arrows contradicting each other. I agree REMs ,cookies, etc are acceptable,but placing a line arrow on the line that contradicts the current line arrows, may make your culpable for an incident.

[rddvet]

We can agree to disagree, but this is wrong on so many levels, and has shown to be a factor in one fatality and some near incidents. There is no such thing as a permanent or temporary line arrow, no matter what personalization you do to it-ever. If you are in a silt out/lights out, or air share, and stressed, then are you going to feel the arrow for specific details, or touch it and say that is the correct way out. Nonverified exit is not valid, you verify that exit, or use the current line arrows. Ask the team in Madison that died when there was a silt out close to the time the half hitch shifted. There was a huge silt out, and the downloaded dive computer showed they traversed back and forth to determine their exit, and the turn point was a line arrow facing the wrong direction due to a hasty line repair. There have been many incidents where a team almost perished due to line arrows contradicting each other. I agree REMs ,cookies, etc are acceptable,but placing a line arrow on the line that contradicts the current line arrows, may make your culpable for an incident.

I completely agree an arrow is a bad choice and that's why I only use REMS. Unfortunately, it means nothing unless you can tell the rest of the world. I've seen a ton of people saying that an arrow is perfectly fine in classes in Mexico and France. I've also seen it in Fl.

It's an uphill battle