Election nss

[bigdave]

When I looked I could not find where the one year requirement was in the bylaws. I only found where it was a past practice but not a hard and fast rule. I don't think there is any compliance issue.

My understanding is that this seems to be working well and has not harmed the NSS and has helped the CDS.

Perhaps numbers don't lie, but they can easily be misunderstood. How do you know it hasn't harmed the NSS - perhaps some of these cheap CDS-only members would have joined the NSS. You don't know, and you can't know.

You guys keep focusing on how the CDS needs money, like membership dues are your only source of money. It is not, there are merchandise sales and certification fees. My understanding is that the latter is significant.

The bump in members could be due to it being sold at the discounted price. Or it could be due to the collapse of the NACD, or perhaps even your instructors are (as they should be) encouraging their students to join.

I personally believe that the NSS is important to the CDS and that in return the CDS should support the NSS. Offering a junior membership without time limit is not supporting the NSS. As word gets out, I expect a lot of CDS members will migrate to the CDS-only membership. Why shouldn't they - it's endorsed by their leadership and saves them a few bucks.

It costs $40 per year to belong to the NSS with an electronic copy of the News - the NSS gives a $10 discount for going electronic. Maybe the CDS should offer a similar discount for subscribing to an electronic UWS.

I wish that our candidate for the NSS board and our CDS leadership here would give some thought to the comments here. Instead, the responses are that everything is great and it's all a big success. Maybe so for the CDS, maybe not so much for the NSS.

Bottom line - if you want to be part of the NSS leadership, then you should be committed to the NSS. The NSS is struggling and needs good leadership. I'd like to see the CDS be part of the solution.

[Kelly Jessop]

You guys keep focusing on how the CDS needs money, like membership dues are your only source of money. It is not, there are merchandise sales and certification fees. My understanding is that the latter is significant.

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Maybe CDS board members can clarify, but merchandise sales aren't the big item it used to be. If you notice there have been over stock sales to move inventory since it tends to stagnate. Certification is probably not what it used to be, especially since TDI has become the biggest certification agency for cave diving. I think workshops are the biggest money maker for the CDS. The largest expense is UWS, which takes probably around 80%+ of the membership dues. I am thankful for the CDS boards which have shown fiscal concern for the organization and good oversite.

[MORGAN]

Maybe it's because I'm one of the oddballs who was a caver long before becoming a cave diver, but I believe that everyone who cares about caves, even if you only think of them as places to dive, should belong to the NSS.

Mike

[rddvet]

Maybe it's because I'm one of the oddballs who was a caver long before becoming a cave diver, but I believe that everyone who cares about caves, even if you only think of them as places to dive, should belong to the NSS.

Mike

I personally don't know why I should belong to the NSS. I have zero interest in dry caving. I've been in dry caves, and it does nothing for me. As soon as I get the NSS magazine, it goes in the trash (I wish I could opt out of it). I would prefer to only be a member of the CDS. It's great that my NSS money goes to convservation efforts, but there's other charities I'd rather the money go to.

And if the CDS makes all of their money off of workshops and not nearly as much on certifications as before, maybe it's time to give up on being a certifying agency. Stick with educational/conservational.

[MORGAN]

The NSS is the primary organization for conservation, exploration, and study of caves, underwater ones as well as dry ones.

[jlillest]

As soon as I get the NSS magazine, it goes in the trash (I wish I could opt out of it)

Being a basic member is an option for not getting the magazine. It'll also save you $10 per year. Either that or the CDS-only option.

Instead of throwing out the magazines, you should give them to people at dive sites or dive shops, maybe?

[Kelly Jessop]

I personally don't know why I should belong to the NSS. I have zero interest in dry caving. I've been in dry caves, and it does nothing for me. As soon as I get the NSS magazine, it goes in the trash (I wish I could opt out of it). I would prefer to only be a member of the CDS. It's great that my NSS money goes to convservation efforts, but there's other charities I'd rather the money go to.

And if the CDS makes all of their money off of workshops and not nearly as much on certifications as before, maybe it's time to give up on being a certifying agency. Stick with educational/conservational.

I can understand your stance. So many relate to the CDS since we are divers, and we go into caves. It is funny once I remember having a conversation with some NACD board members when I sat on the board, and they wish they had the advantage of belonging to a national organization. The NSS has done a lot for the CDS over the years. For example, we wouldn't have had "Taming of the Slough" if it wasn't for NSS press publishing it, in fact they have made their resources available to publish other books for the CDS. Alachua would more likely be a drain pond for Wal Mart if they hadn't taken over the property. They provided help for the CDS in their lawsuit, which had the potential to shutter the CDS. They have donated grant money to support cave diving projects. The biggest benefit is we have a recognized national organization that is proactive in supporting all facets of caving that we can call upon when we need a larger voice. People say the CDS is anti-NSS, this is not accurate, but NSS-apathy is probably a better description. The CDS minimally embraces all the resources the NSS can provide, and never exercises its majority in this organization to help it become stronger.

[rddvet]

I can understand your stance. So many relate to the CDS since we are divers, and we go into caves. It is funny once I remember having a conversation with some NACD board members when I sat on the board, and they wish they had the advantage of belonging to a national organization. The NSS has done a lot for the CDS over the years. For example, we wouldn't have had "Taming of the Slough" if it wasn't for NSS press publishing it, in fact they have made their resources available to publish other books for the CDS. Alachua would more likely be a drain pond for Wal Mart if they hadn't taken over the property. They provided help for the CDS in their lawsuit, which had the potential to shutter the CDS. They have donated grant money to support cave diving projects. The biggest benefit is we have a recognized national organization that is proactive in supporting all facets of caving that we can call upon when we need a larger voice. People say the CDS is anti-NSS, this is not accurate, but NSS-apathy is probably a better description. The CDS minimally embraces all the resources the NSS can provide, and never exercises its majority in this organization to help it become stronger.

I can appreciate having to rely on the big brother organization to help the smaller cds and therefore the nss is an asset. If the cds could accomplish everything without the nss then I would prefer to not have to be part of the nss.

Dry cave conservation is cool, but I'd prefer my conservation money to go elsewhere if it could.


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[rddvet]

Being a basic member is an option for not getting the magazine. It'll also save you $10 per year. Either that or the CDS-only option.

Instead of throwing out the magazines, you should give them to people at dive sites or dive shops, maybe?

I'll have to look when I reup. I think we have the family membership and thats why I havent gone to basic.

As far as keeping the magazines, I have enough trouble remembering all my dove gear sometimes let alone bringing magazines.


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[midway]

I personally don't know why I should belong to the NSS. I have zero interest in dry caving. I've been in dry caves, and it does nothing for me. As soon as I get the NSS magazine, it goes in the trash (I wish I could opt out of it). I would prefer to only be a member of the CDS. It's great that my NSS money goes to convservation efforts, but there's other charities I'd rather the money go to.

And if the CDS makes all of their money off of workshops and not nearly as much on certifications as before, maybe it's time to give up on being a certifying agency. Stick with educational/conservational.

I too have almost zero interest in dry caving but I prefer that CDS is part of NSS and I don’t mind supporting their general conservation and exploration efforts. Given that memership dues are on the order of a gas fill or two, not sure what all the hoopla about memership dues are about.