Cave diving and Wreck penetration (similarities)

[crookshanky]

I have recently been full cave certified and have previously been TDI Limited Wreck certified (essentially cavern for wreck diving). I was discussing with another diver about whether a FC cert is equivalent to the full wreck penetration cert. He is under the opinion that it is not. I understand that a wreck can sometimes impose more entanglement hazards (especially in non-clean wrecks). I also agree that the open ocean can be quite a dynamic environment. I would surmise that a cave course would cover all necessary skills for a wreck penetration. Are there any skills, specific to a wreck course, that are not typically covered in a full cave course?

[RGU]

RGU, would you mind elaborating on the "classic wreck skills" that are dying out? I'm always interested in learning from the, as you put it, "old guys".

A few off the top of my head:
How to actually find your way around a wreck.
How to put a mooring on a wreck.
How throw a hook without killing yourself.
When and how to use a strobe
Why and when the buoyancy set point you use in a cave, may be dangerous on a wreck.
How to deal with getting hung up inside.

I'm sure there are Canadian divers who have experience and opinions on this if you ask; and maybe buy them a beer.

I answered a question on progressive penetration a while back and got pretty beat up.
I really don't want to elaborate.

[FW]

It has been awhile since my wreck course, but dangers of line getting cut on sharp surfaces, hatches that could close, trapping you, and navigation when the wreck isn't upright.

[midway]

I have recently been full cave certified and have previously been TDI Limited Wreck certified (essentially cavern for wreck diving). I was discussing with another diver about whether a FC cert is equivalent to the full wreck penetration cert. He is under the opinion that it is not. I understand that a wreck can sometimes impose more entanglement hazards (especially in non-clean wrecks). I also agree that the open ocean can be quite a dynamic environment. I would surmise that a cave course would cover all necessary skills for a wreck penetration. Are there any skills, specific to a wreck course, that are not typically covered in a full cave course?

Not sure what a "full wreck penetration cert" is. When I was looking for one a few years back, I didn't find a sufficiently rigorous, meaningful wreck diving course. John Chatterton teaches an advanced wreck diving course, and I do see a few others (especially in tropical waters) advertise related courses. But I'd be surprised if there isn't significant variability in what's being taught. Cave courses, for the most part, are standardized in what skills/knowledge they cover.

[crookshanky]

I answered a question on progressive penetration a while back and got pretty beat up.
I really don't want to elaborate.

Completely understandable. Quite sad that so much intolerance exists out there. Thank you for sharing.

I'm sure there are Canadian divers who have experience and opinions on this if you ask; and maybe buy them a beer.

I am fairly new to diving (OW cert about a year ago) so I don't know too many experienced wreck divers but I'm sure there are few lurking out there. I actually grew up on Superior not too far from the Gunilda. She is near the top of my dive list. If I'm every in Michigan I will hit you up for an info for beer exchange!

[crookshanky]

Not sure what a "full wreck penetration cert" is.

Sorry, I meant advanced wreck penetration cert. Limited and advanced wreck would be analogous to cavern and full cave.

[RGU]

...I am fairly new to diving (OW cert about a year ago) so I don't know too many experienced wreck divers but I'm sure there are few lurking out there. I actually grew up on Superior not too far from the Gunilda. She is near the top of my dive list. If I'm every in Michigan I will hit you up for an info for beer exchange!

The Gunilda is an incredible dive, although pretty advanced. Lying next to the reef, it can be really dark and murky. I am also partial to the Kamloops, west of you.

[crookshanky]

The Gunilda is an incredible dive, although pretty advanced. Lying next to the reef, it can be really dark and murky. I am also partial to the Kamloops, west of you.

Never heard of the Kamloops. Just did some reading on it and added it to my list! The accounts of the crewman's body seemingly following divers around the wreck is a bit creepy.

[ltb7733]

As history shows us......
several years ago 3 New Jersey wreck divers died on the spiegal grove.... they did not run a reel because "it was not a real wreck" meaning it was an artificial wreck,
In shadow divers we read about the father and son team who died because they exited the sub at a different location then where they put the deco bottles.

so.......if you cant see daylight on a wreck...run a reel....i dont give a darn what those tuff North East divers say about progressive penetration....when you do a wreck 50 times or more...do it if you like. Try that method in a cave and see how that works out for you....

when i dive a cave , i leave the deco bottle well inside the entrance, so no swimmers can mess with it.....of course i always run a reel to the main line unless its ginnie or peacock 1.

when i dive a wreck, the deco bottle NEVER leaves my body....i run a reel when i go below decks.... and you never know when you may have to exit somewhere else on the wreck. If you have to exit the wreck for any reason, other than the point where you entered, when you see daylight, cut your reel, and exit, or go back on another dive and reel back up the way you came.

[WEPIV]

Never heard of the Kamloops. Just did some reading on it and added it to my list! The accounts of the crewman's body seemingly following divers around the wreck is a bit creepy.

What's the story with the swimming deceased crewman? Love to hear more about that.