Choosing Dive Buddies

[Benderr]

I'm new to caves. I have a solid buddy (also a new caver) that I do all my overhead and technical diving with. He's someone I trust completely underwater.

This weekend, my dive buddy and I were fortunate enough to witness the "week before DEMA" Catastrophe of Cavers™ at Devil's Eye. It was bad. I lost count of how many lines were over installed over our own. One group had a line straight down the travel path. Primaries and secondaries had come undone. Several teams failed to yield to exiting divers. A team in recreational gear, single tanks, and cave lights shot straight past us as we were trying to set our own line once. I had been cautioned to expect jackassery at Ginnie, but this was a horrorshow.

So my question is, how do you vet divers that want to join your team, or want them to join theirs? I have some ideas of my own, but I'd like to hear how more experienced divers handle this element of caving.

[FW]

...So my question is, how do you vet divers that want to join your team, or want them to join theirs? I have some ideas of my own, but I'd like to hear how more experienced divers handle this element of caving.

The only reliable way is to dive with them. I will dive with anyone in big easy cave, well once anyway. If they seem buddy aware, I will dive with them again. FWIW, there is only one former buddy I won't dive with anymore, and I have had at least 100 different buddies over the past 50 years. One other way is ask them who their instructor was. You can tell a lot about a diver by who his instructor was.

[rddvet]

One other way is ask them who their instructor was. You can tell a lot about a diver by who his instructor was.

I repsect your years of wisdom and experience, but I will counter that slightly. I don't know that that's very true anymore. Some of the "biggest names" put out some god awful divers that can't even frog kick. Yet many divers I think are excellent have instructors most of us have never heard of.

[nakatomi]

I agree with what Forrest says. Ask who the instructor was and soon enough you will get the big picture.

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[patpicos]

Some of the "biggest names" put out some god awful divers that can't even frog kick.

some old schoolers dont frog kick..


and that comment brings up some fun convos i had in cave country...

[bamafan]

Big open tourist cave I will give about anybody a shot. Nasty sidemount cave I would want a few dives with them. I even had my line accidentally cut by a new dive buddy once as I was laying line and I got left without a continuous guideline to the surface in nearly zero viz. I think it bothered him more than me and I would dive with him again as I think we all learned something that day.

[FW]

... I think it bothered him more than me and I would dive with him again as I think we all learned something that day.

I would hope so!

[diveconjeff]

This is always an interesting thread.

I can remember a few years ago sharing what my criteria were for diving with someone new to me. I thought I was doing pretty well and had a decent handle on things.

Big cave first time ... Maybe I knew the instructor ... Maybe they were vetted by a mentor ... Maybe a buddy of a buddy ... and so on.

It was shortly after that, I dove with someone the first time and we did the Grand Traverse. Probably the worst cave dive I can ever remember. My trim side to side was god awful with a *very* pronounced roll to one side. I later figured out there was an issue (my own doing) causing unequal lengths on the SM bungees of my rig. One was pulling way too tight on the wing causing an inflation imbalance.

Anyway, after the dive, I had lunch with the guy at the Luraville Country Store. He was very pleasant, but never brought up the topic of a second dive. When we were done eating, he could not get away fast enough

Well it was a good lesson for me. The evaluation should always be a two way street. If you are ready to give a lesson, you should also be ready to take a lesson.

Make it a point after the dive to review everything. I generally find time during surface deco to "Confess my own sins" (Thanks Bob!), review and learn.

I have been privileged to dive with numerous folks that I consider top notch. I take away more than I give to be certain, but much more often than not, they will dive with me again.

I'd still love a chance to dive with that guy from the Grand Traverse dive again... We could both enjoy it this time.

[Rhino]

For a first dive with a new buddy, I choose somewhere that I am comfortable diving with an unknown quantity. When I was a newer cave diver, that always meant a cave that I had dived previously. These days, I might be comfortable diving in a cave I had never been, with a new buddy where the buddy was comfortable. In any case, the first dive will be relatively big cave, including a possible jump or jumps in not-too-small sized tunnels.


If the new buddy is a relative newbie, I will respectfully explain that because it's our first dive together and I have a little more experience, I would prefer my new buddy to lead on the way in so that I can watch her. I may also mention that I'll probably want her to lead for the first part of the way out, but that I also think she should get a chance to see me from behind to note any issues and decide whether she wants to dive with me again. Even if I don't mention it, at the turn I'll usually motion for the buddy to "go ahead." Assuming all is well on the way back, at some point I'll signal to "let me go first."


If the new buddy is more experienced than I am, I will respectfully ask the buddy whether he would mind leading on the way in for a bit so that I can check him out, like running the primary and the first few hundred feet - which usually means that she will be swimming faster than my normal pace, and then I'll then take over the lead.


In the initial dive stages, I find discussions of signaling and gas planning very enlightening. Also, I listen carefully to dive experience stories. Personally, even if I know and respect the new buddy's instructor, I invest no more than a little trust in that familiarity.


After the initial dive or dives, I try to work in progressively more "challenging" areas and dive plans. That goes for both buddies with more and less experience than me.

[rddvet]

For a first dive with a new buddy, I choose somewhere that I am comfortable diving with an unknown quantity. When I was a newer cave diver, that always meant a cave that I had dived previously. These days, I might be comfortable diving in a cave I had never been, with a new buddy where the buddy was comfortable. In any case, the first dive will be relatively big cave, including a possible jump or jumps in not-too-small sized tunnels.


If the new buddy is a relative newbie, I will respectfully explain that because it's our first dive together and I have a little more experience, I would prefer my new buddy to lead on the way in so that I can watch her. I may also mention that I'll probably want her to lead for the first part of the way out, but that I also think she should get a chance to see me from behind to note any issues and decide whether she wants to dive with me again. Even if I don't mention it, at the turn I'll usually motion for the buddy to "go ahead." Assuming all is well on the way back, at some point I'll signal to "let me go first."


If the new buddy is more experienced than I am, I will respectfully ask the buddy whether he would mind leading on the way in for a bit so that I can check him out, like running the primary and the first few hundred feet - which usually means that she will be swimming faster than my normal pace, and then I'll then take over the lead.


In the initial dive stages, I find discussions of signaling and gas planning very enlightening. Also, I listen carefully to dive experience stories. Personally, even if I know and respect the new buddy's instructor, I invest no more than a little trust in that familiarity.


After the initial dive or dives, I try to work in progressively more "challenging" areas and dive plans. That goes for both buddies with more and less experience than me.

Communication in a new buddy team is usually the biggest issue. You don't find adding all the switching around signals confused people, esp in cases where you haven't discussed it ahead of time

I'd wonder why the hell you kept flip flopping us around when I'm trying to enjoy a dive if you didn't tell me ahead of time.