DPV gas planning

[LiteHedded]

Wait, people actually scooter in Zero visibility?

I'm asking because I don't know. That seems dangerous and unnecessary but I have no training with a scooter and only about 15minutes worth of time playing on one.

I think if I was in that situation now I probably would clip it off and swim.

Interested to here some discussion of real life experiences.

Thanks
Garth

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not zero obviously. but in seriously reduced visibility it's possible to scooter

[bamafan]

Wait, people actually scooter in Zero visibility?

Depends on who you are scootering behind. Seriously I think what the standards are saying is swim along the line pushing or towing the scooter simulating zero viz. At least that is what I did in my class. You can scooter in some crappy viz but you really have to concentrate on the line or you will loose it.

[Kevin Leonhardt]

Kevin I am not trying to disagree with your statement above but I was taught in my scooter class that the oog diver needs to be towed. I was told that more than likely the oog diver would be stressed and more than likely not in the best of shape to be scootering. I can see the reasoning behind your way as the diver with issue is placed in front and in control of the situation and it also keeps the procedure the same as if they were swimming. I can see the reasoning either way.

Both diver's will be a bit stressed, they are both breathing from a single air source with no other options for gas. The only way I would put the OOA diver in the back is if the donor was a whole lot more familiar with the cave.

[floridabob]

I had a conversation with one of my very regular dive buddies and we decided there was no GD way we would share with both on triggers separately. We laughed out loud about the concept of connection by mouthpiece.

Just hook in and go. It's a better option.

I see absolutely no reason it doesn't work or that speed matching would be required. Required. If I'm missing it, set me straight.

Practice the skill of speed matching, sure, why the hell not. But do it. No thanks.

Bob

[PfcAJ]

I've scootered for short sections on the line in zero vis. Its slow going trigger-bump stuff, but it can be done.

As far as which diver goes in front, I think there's merit to both the OOG diver in front and OOG diver being towed arguments. I generally think the OOG guy should be in front as its much easier to recover the reg if its out in front of the donating diver rather than somewhere behind him if the two get separated (thanks Litehedded for the reasoning). If the OOG guy was shaken up with the big eyes look, then put him in the rear so he can zen the F*&% out and not burn up a lot of gas.

[RN]

Typically I do a pretty good job of keeping my mind open and my mouth shut, but this is bothering me too much. I think your interpretation of the standards are whacked. In your citation above nowhere does it mention both divers on the trigger while sharing gas. You're kidding yourself if you believe that is a safe way handle an OOA situation.

There's only one way that meets the standards in every scenario: donor clips his scooter into tow position, grabs crotch strap of OOA diver, OOA diver drives out. They are in touch contact and prepared to handle zero vis, restrictions, etc.

I don't see any other way of interpreting "using DPVs" other than being on the trigger. I'm also not the only one who interprets the standards this way. This is what was also done during my internships. I never said I thought this was a safe skill. I did say So while I don't think this is a practical method of exiting all caves and, like Kelly mentioned, not a skill that would be performed well, or even should be performed, if it's not practiced on a regular basis. I focus a lot more on other more practical skills but I do have my students perform this skill in OW and in the overhead as required by standards.

[RN]

Place safeties, do setup dives.

Long range diving ain't easy.

Safeties are already in place. They have been. This thread is not for my benefit but rather for the benefit of others who would like to do the dive but think it can be done with less equipment and less gas. Fortunately, pretty much everyone is in agreement and hopefully others will learn from what's being stated here.

Just buy a rebreather then you never have to worry about swimming out...

Backmount rebreather won't fit. I'm still not totally comfortable with my sidemount rebreather to be doing this type of dive with it. Besides, see above ^^^

[PfcAJ]

I never said I thought this was a safe skill.

Why teach it if its not safe (first) and practical (second)?

It would seem to me that both students are using DPVs while doing the towing method. Diver 1 is driving it, diver 2 is towing it out. DPVs are certainly being used and you don't end up teaching some "technique" that virtually every poster here recognizes as impractical and dangerous.

Safeties are already in place. They have been.

That's good to hear!

[Kelly Jessop]

I never said I thought this was a safe skill. I did say So while I don't think this is a practical method of exiting all caves and, like Kelly mentioned, not a skill that would be performed well, or even should be performed, if it's not practiced on a regular basis. I focus a lot more on other more practical skills but I do have my students perform this skill in OW and in the overhead as required by standards.

I agree Rob it is only ideal if done in certain systems,it wouldn't work in smaller caves at all,and should only be done with a good team dynamic that have high level of DPV proficiency with practice. But, I am reading an oxymoronic statement, it is a skill that is being taught for DPV OOA exit,but instruction may not consider it safe? What is the current state of DPV training skills people receive? I really don't keep up because I feel what I have learned in the past has served me well,but I am open minded enough to understand where the industry has gone. I feel the majority of the DPV training being conducted is non-DIR and these people are not going to respond on this thread for fear of rebuke they may receive since what they have been taught has been deemed "unsafe",so I started a poll to get a good understanding on what is being taught.

[LiteHedded]

i'm not sure why this needs to come down to DIR or not-DIR
there are plenty of problems with this method of exit that i think are plain for everyone to see.