Yes. I visited this poll again to delight in the results.
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You deserve to die for suggesting this!
Yes. I visited this poll again to delight in the results.
Hmmm, I'm surprised. I would have thought you wanted to see the CDS remain a viable training agency and association. This poll if you disregard the third choice shows that 1/3 of people feel that the CDS needs to move on, 2/3 think it shouold stay in the training business. That's quite sad as the other poll asking what agency certified shows that the CDS is well behind the curve with 40 years of existence compared to TDI only being active in cave for maybe 5-6 years.....Originally Posted by CGriffing
IMHO you're taking delight in watching the CDS become irrelevant and not be proactive to survive.
Chris Richardson
An honest observation and question.
- Thus far, 195 people have voted in this poll
- The NSS records show 737 NSS members have the CDS as their grotto affiliation. Holds their actual number very guarded. The CDS had 643 (you do not need to be a CDS member to claim CDS affiliation) votes as per the current membership manual but for the sake of factual numbers, I will go with the NSS numbers.
- The CDS stated that they struggled to get 20% of the membership to vote in their previous election. Based on the NSS numbers the 20% figure would be 147.
So have more people voted in this poll than actually voted in the CDS election?
Yes, this forum is not limited to NSS-CDS members.
FWIW, your numbers are low. The NSS database shows 943 CDS members. Not all CDS members list the CDS as their primary affiliation. Quite a few list their own local grotto as primary, but are still CDS members.
which brings up a question...why aren't more cave divers involved. Is it the mission of the NSS that keeps them away, I'm gonna bet that's not it.
Chris Richardson
Thanks Forrest. I knew that about the forum though. I always find it strange that members manual has different numbers.
If you got your numbers from the MM, that explains a lot. The "official" NSS numbers were low when it was printed, because they were only tracking "primarily affiliation". I noticed not a single sump diver was on the list, and I knew many who were members. It was then that I realized that not all CDS members had CDS as primary affiliation. That was rectified months ago, but after the MM went out to print.
That's false logic. You assume that this idea you have is the actual solution to the perceived problem, and that if people are not in favor of your idea, then they don't want the problem to be solved. I can accept that there may be a problem, and if so I'd very much be in favor of it being solved, but I haven't heard anything so far to convince me that your idea has merit as the solution.
If I understand correctly, the current curve, the trend, in training, is that the quality is deteriorating. Is that the curve that the CDS wants to be ahead of? Maybe the CDS certifies fewer divers, because quality control of the instructorship is more stringent than other agencies, so therefore there are fewer instructors able to certify divers?
If nothing else, if so many new divers being certified are bad divers, at least the lower CDS numbers means that fewer bad divers are coming out of the CDS than from other agencies.
nope, I see a problem, I have advanced what I see as a possible solution. I am VERY open to other possible solutions. The idea that it's ok for the CDS to certify fewer divers doesn't bother me all all except I can't get my mind around the "to what end?", especially when I see a option that involves just taking that to its logical ending of not certifying any divers and thru that seeing good opportunities there for the CDS to grow, meet the needs of more cave divers and have a greater impact on community wide issues of conservation, access and education. same with your last point, IMHO,it smacks of defeatism and acceptance that that is how things are/going to be so just accept it. That isn't a solution, it's a cop out and doesn't address the bigger issues that will haunt us soon, from more deaths, more negative environmental impact on the caves from divers,less access and in todays nanny state quite possibly a call for laws preventing cave diving.
Chris Richardson
So, for anyone who disagrees with your plan, they are not being proactive and wish to make the CDS become irrelevant? I find it quite disturbing that you take an adversarial approach to anyone who questions your plan or disagrees with it, rather than assuming a welcoming attitude and fostering good relations in a good faith attempt to get them on board. Something is very wrong here.
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