I stumbled across this on YouTube...

[Kelly Jessop]

In an effort to set the historical record straight:

The previous posts regarding how JB came to be re-opened to cave divers are all inaccurate.

Jackson County did indeed have a law on the books prohibiting cave diving as recently as 1996/97. Through the direct efforts of a handful of panhandle and Alabama cave divers that law was rescinded, and procedures to dive JB were put in place. As of the re-openeing of JB, divers were still technically required to sign in with Sheriff's Dept to dive Hole and Twin, though that was never enforced.

In the late 90's (1996, I think) there was a push spearheaded by Scott Hunsucker, Pat Watson, Ken Paramore and myself, who, with the assistance of many others managed to get JB re-opened to cave divers. This occurred through numerous meetings with the county commission, facilitated by then commissioner Bob Pforte. In support of our arguments, we provided them with dollar figures for how much cave divers would contribute to the local economy, as well as safety statistics and petitions. In point of fact, the daily rates for diving JB were set at a county commission meeting based on the figures we had provided for the daily rates to dive other cave systems in the state. We objected to the $25 per day rate as being too high, as JB provided no amenities at that time, not even access to the (old) bathrooms. A commissioner (who's name I no longer remember) told us to sit down and shut up or he'd double it. In working with Sheriff MacDonald (aka "Johhny Mac") we then established the original sign in and payment procedures with the dispatchers at the Sheriff's Dept. Scott and I provided the original lock and keys for cave diver usage. Scott Hunsucker and myself were presented with an award by the NACD at it's annual workshop in, I believe, 1997 for these efforts. Shortly thereafter, Scott, Pat Watson and I re-lined the back section of JB, from the trash pile to the Banana Room, replacing the exploration line with the current gold line, which was donated by the NACD or the CDS, I can't remember which. Further, the platforms in place at Twin and Hole in the Wall were financed through the contributions of a number of cave divers, while the effort was spearheaded by Chuck Noe of Texas, who, along with a handful of divers performed the labor to replace the original, much smaller and heavily decayed platforms.

I am not trying to diminish Edd's considerable contributions, however, all of this occurred long before Edd moved to Marianna.

Heather Choat Armstrong

Thanks for the additional info. I remember when you guys relined the back of JB,and that was huge contribution. There was some obscure to find your self to the back of the cave ie follow the line arrows with the blue dot,but you guys sure did a great job and made it much safer.

[Sludge]

I thank Heather et al for opening it up, but allow me to point out the entry fee was originally $15 per day. In ~2001 they upped it to $25, telling us they would use the extra money to build modern restrooms.

In ~2004 Johnnie Mac came out and was talking to me (I was the only diver there that day) and he asked if we cave divers had any input as to what they were providing for us. I mentioned the higher fee wasn't that big a deal, except the restrooms we paid to build were always locked! The next time I was down there, and every time since, the restrooms have been unlocked.

[Jax]

For that, I thank you fervently!

[Ken Hill]

Heather,

Push your timetable up by maybe two years. For you to state that the events as recounted are incorrect is not correct, and yes I do recall this all being hashed out on the internet ad nauseam back then. You and others performed performed a valuable role and yes, I do remember you buying the lock. BUT understand that the adults (Henry Nicholson and John Zumrick) set the stage for the audience you and Scott and others rec'd from the Sheriff. It was the Sheriff that the County Commissioners relied on for advice and approval to allow diving. Their meeting with the Sheriff was (if I recall correctly) after a USDCT trip to Wakulla in 1998 and just prior to the CDS workshop. Pat was out of diving by 1999 shortly after he did a tough Vortex recovery.

None the less and to keep this on topic, OW divers who venture into caves were and are the nemesis of Cave Diving and the county ordinances were designed to keep them out by closing caves. Divers demanding access, especially those from out of state fell on deaf ears. There was no way any public official would put one of their public safety workers in jeopardy trying to recover someone who didn't even live there.

[DogDiver]

From the blog, it's this guy.

Name is Don Bouer a NAUI tech instructor

[Kelly Jessop]

Unless there's a park, there are no rules posted. Rock Bluff, Big Blue (the recent OW diver death), Hole in the Wall, Twin Cave, Wilson, Columbia, Spring Creek, Buford, Ebro Blue, Bozel, Gator Hole, Darby, the list goes on and on of caves which do not have posted or enforced rules.

If you're talking about the 10-15 park caves in FL then yes, rules are on the books. Most FL caves are in an unmonitored forest or river.

This is not entirely true. There are a handful of places that we go under the assumption that diving must be okay,but in reality the people who oversee the property are not aware of the activities. It is a "don't ask,don't tell situtation". If we make these places well known and awareness occurs that these sites are being used for diving,then we can possibly lose access,which has happened in the past. There recently was a law suit that a government agency lost,and this has made them more sensitive to recreational activities on their property.

[harmstrong]

Ken,

I think you might be co-mingling several events which occurred over a 3-4 year period in Marianna. Perfectly understandable, as we are discussing events almost 20 years in the past.

We (Scott, Pat W., Kenny P,. myself, and a bunch of others) successfully lobbied the county commission and reacquired access to Jackson Blue sometime in 1996. Divers were regularly diving and training there as of 1997. In fact, in addition to the recognition we received from the NACD for those efforts, we did a presentation on diving the Mill Pond at the NACD workshop in 1998. John Chluski did most of the video and editing for that.

Sheriff McDaniels may indeed have reached out to Zumrick and Henry Nicholson in early 1999. I certainly wouldn’t be surprised, though I have no direct knowledge of that. The first few months of ’99 weren’t good from safety standpoint, with one fatality and one near fatality occurring within 10 days of each other in February at Wakulla, and then on 18 April the Mike Wixon fatality at Jackson Blue. Scott, Pat and I performed that recovery, which, along with the Vortex fatality from April of ’98, (which Scott and I also participated in) prompted us to sit in on one of the very early IUCRR training courses. I do not have any recollection of Jackson being closed to diving for any extended period of time after the Wixon recovery, though, and at the time we were diving in Marianna or Tallahassee pretty much every weekend.


http://www.docstoc.com/docs/45668119...CIDENT-REPORTS

[Ken Hill]

Heather,

I am referencing the policy that established the check in procedure with the Sheriff and allowed the County to approve diving to qualified cave divers showing appropriate levels of cave training at the SO. Again, was in 1998 with Henry scheduling the appointment. The IUCRR was formed in 1999 and as its own organization it allowed him and the recovery divers of the day to demonstrate to law enforcement that there was an active organization on which they could call and rely on to perform recovery services. (Edited in: The word Rescue was added to organizations name to demonstrate that recovery cave divers had an organized response capability reacting in time to performs rescues.)

Henry Nicholson and Florida DEP Captain Buddy Giddens did more work behind the scenes to open sites and improve relationships with County and State officials that can ever be imagined. Have a Merry Christmas. /Ken

[WROCK]

I have had the worst day, and the ScubaBoard post and the Ass ripping that followed just made it all better!!!




BRITTONJoin DateJul 2012Location FloridaPosts 16Dives50 - 99

It's funny that I've just stumbled across this thread in an email of the month's "Top Threads". I guess it is begging a response from me. What makes people want to criticize divers, adventurers, thrill-seekers, or whatever they are, so badly? You can't possibly know what training and experience all divers have and it is not everyone's business to jump in and pass judgement, especially unsolicited. Just because something seems daring to you doesn't mean the people doing it didn't take precautions and didn't have experience that you may not see from the outside looking in. If they are willing to accept the risks and live life as they choose, they are most likely not seeking your infinite wisdom in keeping them from taking such risks. I'm sorry if I sound unappreciative of the advice, but I'm smack dab in the middle of dealing with people posting comments on something they know nothing about.

We maintain a website/blog at www.divingintocruising.comand we often publish videos on YouTube of our dives. We’ve received some flack recently over our “Diving Into Cruising – Paradise Springs” and "Diving Into Cruising - Manatee Springs" videos. Apparently some of the cave diving gurus out there think we’re somehow encouraging divers who lack experience to enter into caves without the right equipment or knowledge to do it safely. The videos we publish are simply to portray our own adventures and share them with friends and family and anyone else who cares to see it. Encouraging OW Divers to go beyond their limits....no, we aren't encouraging anything and anyone who simply watches a video and thinks “Yeah, I can do that!”, Well…best of luck to you. I would think that most people are smarter than that and realize this sport requires some guidance and training. That guidance can come in many forms and doesn't always have to be a "certification course" where you get your pretty picture on a card at the end. Getting the experience is much more important than getting the certification.

These “cave diving experts” who think we broke the code of conduct in diving are looking to see high tech lights, double tanks, and other equipment, that may be nice to have, but certainly isn’t required in order to dive these sites safely. It’s a shame that the diving industry has made this sport so equipment induced and convinced divers that there is a need for so many expensive pieces of equipment for which the purpose of could otherwise be accomplished by simply having the right knowledge and experience. We prefer more of a minimalistic approach to diving. As far as encouraging divers to ignore safety guidelines or extend beyond your level of training, we certainly hope it isn’t perceived that way. In obtaining certification as an OW Diver, you should already know that diving is an inherently risky sport and when you start venturing into cave or wreck diving, the risks grow greater. This is the same with any high risk sport. The grim reaper sign in most caverns/caves does warn open water divers of going any further and before we had the right introduction to cave diving, we never exceeded those limits, even though we had seen videos on YouTube of the exact same site. We had sense enough to know that the people we saw doing it probably had training that we didn’t. Hell, I’ve seen videos of people flying off bridges in squirrel suits, but does that mean I would strap one on and jump not knowing what I was doing…I don’t think so! Remember Darwin’s process of natural selection? “You can’t fix stupid!” But....if I had someone show me a thing or two and teach me about the dangers unknown, I might be up for it!

[Wizard]

These “cave diving experts” who think we broke the code of conduct in diving are looking to see high tech lights, double tanks, and other equipment, that may be nice to have, but certainly isn’t required in order to dive these sites safely. It’s a shame that the diving industry has made this sport so equipment induced and convinced divers that there is a need for so many expensive pieces of equipment for which the purpose of could otherwise be accomplished by simply having the right knowledge and experience. We prefer more of a minimalistic approach to diving.

Redundant equipment not needed? I was lied to and want my money back!
Thanks for posting, totally priceless.