I cant wait until Bens Vortex is out. Id like to see it, to gain a bettet understanding of what you gathered. The shovel thing was weird. What were your thoughts?
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I cant wait until Bens Vortex is out. Id like to see it, to gain a bettet understanding of what you gathered. The shovel thing was weird. What were your thoughts?
The narrator stated that, I believe on behalf of Ben's brother Tim. Id have to replay the show.
Obviously opinions are all over the board on who said it, which supports the flawed validity of eye witness testimony.Originally Posted by RebreatherPro.com
My recollection is that his brother said it. I am reasonably confident of that because my thought when I heard the guy say it was "who is that moron?", and then paid attention until I discovered he was the brother.
His girlfreind did not state it but instead stated that he had spent hours and hours studying books, highlighting secitons in books, making plans and drawing maps - which <sarcasm on> caused me to sigh with relief that he had learned to cave dive from books rather than off the internet <sarcasm off>.
Edd, being the voice of sanity and reason on the show stated that taking an OW sidemount course gave him the tools to dive there but not the knowledge. I'd have expanded on that to include "not the knolwedge, skills or ability".
In general though we, the cave diving community, and the internet posting cave divers in general got washed with the brush that we all think Ben was a moron for diving in a cave without proper training and certification.
I can't speak for the whole community, but I'll plead guilty as charged in thinking anyone diving in a cave without proper certification is in fact a moron.
The shovel thing isn't wierd. I can't imagine Edd, etc all missing it. I can imagine the shovel being left there by another cave diver in the intervening months. Maybe even one with grand plans to dig his way to Ben's body and the reward.
Generally speaking the simplest and most plausible explanation for something will be more lilkely to be the correct explanation and another diver leaving it there between the search and the filming by Jill is more plausible than it being missed initally.
The thing that got me was the implication by the mother that all of the other cave divers lied about going to the back of the cave.
The exact quotes are as follows: (starting at 18:00 into the broadcast)
Narrator: "While talking to people who knew Ben, Investigators discover a troubling
fact... He is not a certified cave diver."
H.C. Sheriff's Dept.: " He had self-taught himself to cave dive, which may not be the safest
thing in the world to do."
Ben's Brother: "He wasn't certified with the cave diving, but knew exactly what he
should and shouldn't do."
Narrator: "But, in the cave diving community, training and certification are
considered essential."
Edd: "In Ben's case, he took an open water side-mount course...that gave
the tools to dive into a small opening. It did not give him the knowledge."
Narrator: "Despite the conflicting perspectives about Ben's competency, the
question remains... how could he get a key to the gate without having
his certification?"
Personally, my favorite moment was the shot of the diver messing with the "gate" that was running in reverse. They obviously shot it once and then ran it backwards to get scenes of both opening and closing the gate. I had to re-run it a few times to make sure I had really seen what I thought I saw...bubbles coming over his shoulder and disappearing into his second stage. Never saw anyone inhaling air through a reg before. Sure would extend bottom time!!!
My wife said I was probably the only person "weird enough" to notice.
I pretty much agree with you. Simple fact -- money. Those sensationalizing the story are simply in it for money. Things to think about, if Ben is dead, is Eduardo complicit and could he be sued for wrongful death? If Ben is alive and the reward was a factor in this recent death, could the McDaniels (and Ben) be charged with manslaughter?
If I were one of the divers who went to that last restrcition, I'd be offended.
As it is, I can understand why it's possibly easier for a mother to want to think that, especialyl if it is easier than the other potential explanations in the case.
On the other hand, she also seems to have the expectation that other mothers' sons should potentially die in the effort to recover her son, even if a substantial body of evidence and expert opinion is that he isn't in there. I understand the desire for closure, but that strikes me as way more than a little callous and self centered on her part.
Eduardo is potentially hanging way out there, but I think he's pretty safe unless they actualyl find Ben's body as it's hard to prove a harm without a corpse and there is at least a reasonable doubt that Ben isn't dead - in the cave at least.
As for the McDaniels liability that would probably depend on any laws specific to intentionally creating a hazard and enticement to others and how it would be interpeted in this case.
At one end of the spectrum you have things like the Ansari X prize, the Ortieg Prize (First non-stop crossing of the Atlantic by air), etc. where you could argue that if a team competing for such a prize was enticed to their deaths - balanced by the overall benefit to mankind of the advancement of technology. At the other extreme you have things like offering money to someone going over Niagra falls in a barrel - with no real benefit to anyone or anything. The McDaniel reward is somewhere in the middle, but IMHO falls a lot closer to the barre analogy than the Ortieg Prize analogy.
What is pretty clear is that the morality and ethics of their action in posting a reward really stink as it does entice divers to risk their lives for no substantial or meaningful benefit to anyone.
Edd probably has a great defamation of charachter suit, but he's too much of a gentleman to pursue it and he does not strike me as the kind of person who would sue a grieving parent grasping at straws.
The interesting thing about civil court is the does NOT have to be a "shadow of a doubt", all that is required is the "weight" of the evidence (preponderance of the evidence).
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