What's the use?

[DA Aquamaster]

Well, I changed my mind about doing the Dark Water tunnel after watching a video. I am not SM and it appeared too tight for BM. I learned some info about diving the Well also. Also I enjoyed learning about the push Agnes and James did from Peacock to Baptizing. I learned some valuable info pertaining to the Crypt. So yes I have gained some good info, as alot of the caves are new to me. So what do you consider a tourist cave? OBTW, since there seems to a drive to close down caves and make other accessable only with an AB award or guide (read Cow, Wayne's World, Diploder, etc.) chances are you will start to see more of them. Just my thoughts as new cave diver.

That's unfortunate. The Dark Water tunnel is cold and can be very tannic - along the lines of diving in iced tea (unsweet for yankees and sweet tea for southerners) - and while it is not large in some areas, none of it is anything that can't be done cleanly in back mount provided you have decent buoyancy control and can handle duck unders and depth changes without bottoming out. It isn't anything I'd view as a side mount passage.

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One of the things I find interesting is how caves get "bigger" as a cave diver's experience level grows. That's often one thing you see reflected in some of the trip reports - a diver even newer that you are views a particular dive or passage as "tight", "challenging", etc, when you no longer do, but perhaps used to.

In that regard, those kinds of touristy cave reviewers are useful because:

1. they provide a reminder of where you've been and how your skills have developed. For example, I remember being a brand new Intro level diver where going all the way to Pot Hole was a big deal - a view that other divers probably had when they were brand new.

2. they allow communication around different perceptions, or perhaps misperceptions, about the dives in those areas and/or at that level.

If you don't dive in a cave often, you might not know where a particular unmarked jump goes, or for that matter even noticed it was there. I see things like that a lot in Peacock, where people often rush to do things like the grand traverse, going to the crypt, etc and after doing the well known larger dives in the system, regard the cave as if they have walled it out, and consequently you'll miss most of the nicer dives and areas available in the first half of the cave.

In fact, you can copy the paragraph above and insert the name of almost any tourist cave in place of "peacock" and be able to apply the whole paragraph with equal accuracy.

[skip]

The reports can be entertaining stories and that alone makes it worth the time and "real-estate." I see no requirement for them to fulfill specific objectives like learning something new, finding a new buddy, etc. I generally skim through to see if it's a "report" like we did this, went there, and then, and then, and then, or if it raised some interesting questions or issues or just a good read (then I slow down and enjoy the reading). I would suspect if you've never been to the system being reported, then maybe it would serve to orient you to that system and help put it on your list of must-see (or avoid). Perhaps not for the more experienced, but certainly something for the less experienced. and you know some people just have to tell someone! even if we've all heard the same thing a dozen times from a dozen different divers. so sometimes it's just something you gotta say whether or not anyone reads it!

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[Tegg]

The reports can be entertaining stories and that alone makes it worth the time and "real-estate." I see no requirement for them to fulfill specific objectives like learning something new, finding a new buddy, etc. I generally skim through to see if it's a "report" like we did this, went there, and then, and then, and then, or if it raised some interesting questions or issues or just a good read (then I slow down and enjoy the reading). I would suspect if you've never been to the system being reported, then maybe it would serve to orient you to that system and help put it on your list of must-see (or avoid). Perhaps not for the more experienced, but certainly something for the less experienced. and you know some people just have to tell someone! even if we've all heard the same thing a dozen times from a dozen different divers. so sometimes it's just something you gotta say whether or not anyone reads it!

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I read them to see who has found the "deep section" jumps in all the caves... There is always one.

[Jax]

Ok gotcha, I probably read over or past the chest thumping because honestly a good chunk of the time I don't actually know if its a big deal or not. I do think we need to de-emphasize depth/distances and reemphasize fun, learning something new, finally solving a vexing issue, drinking beer with your buddies afterwards, pretty much anything other than how far you went, how small it was, or how deep you got. That's like listening to a story about a high school date.

I agree!

One of these days I'm going to write a book about where to eat after diving "whichever" divesite.

Count me in with the other dozen!

You may not be banging my door down to want to dive with me after I file a newbie trip report, but posts/reports offer me the insight as to who I might seek out to ask if they would consider a dive at my level and/or a few pointers.

As a wreck diver I mentored..... as a cave diver I look to be mentored. Top and bottom perspective.

Here, here!

You can gain a lot of insight in reading others' stories; you can also discern the 'high school date' stories even without any training / experience.

[TONY CHANEY]

That's unfortunate. The Dark Water tunnel is...none of it is anything that can't be done cleanly in back mount provided you have decent buoyancy control and can handle duck unders and depth changes without bottoming out. It isn't anything I'd view as a side mount passage.

Thanks...I'll do it. It just really looked tight from the film which it the first one I saw on this section. OBTW, You are spot on about what use to be tight is now a very large opening. Trust me when I say that Cow is, (or was until the recent changes), my favorite and I never felt it was too tight. Funny how others complain about divers getting their dive numbers up going up and down Peanut but vote to restrict places like Cow. Oh well, I am still having fun main line with several jumps in the "tourist caves."

[Walter Pickel]

I think that beginners in the sport can glean value from the postings. I also see that some "veterans" of the sport comment. But I too have found myself away from the boards for a period of time but I have also embraced other forms of social media always looking for something in the caving world that piques my interest. I post my "reports" on my site.

As with condition reports on my site (http://caveatlas.com) I do like reading about people's views of cave sites (beginner, novice, veteran, etc.).

If it were not for those that were coming into the sport and the excitement they bring, the sport would shrivel (yep) up, the agencies would become increasingly smaller and less focused on cave diving, conservation or even education.

[Walter Pickel]

One of these days I'm going to write a book about where to eat after diving "whichever" divesite.

Start it on Yelp...I have added a few. A CLOSE friend has also promised to pen such an adventurer's guide! I hope one of you does it! Hell, I will add it to Cave Atlas