Learn some skills people

[Kevin Carlisle]

One thing that pisses me off more than unsafe divers are those with no skills going to delicate areas. Got tired of seeing broken geothite back in the middle grounds of JB today along with countless fin marks. In the smaller areas there you have a good 3ft above and below you. If you can't go through there and not break stuff, STAY OUT!! If you must go, learn buoyancy and kick skills, and maybe some finesse skills. And if you must scooter through there, KNOW HOW TO DO IT!! There was no sense for any of that in there.

[Shocky]

Amen!

[JamesK]

One thing that pisses me off more than unsafe divers are those with no skills going to delicate areas.

Your statement is like saying one thing I hate more the brussell sprouts is brussell sprouts. The divers who are doing such things are diving beyond their skill level so they are in fact unsafe divers.

I agree with you though.

[jj1987]

Your statement is like saying one thing I hate more the brussell sprouts is brussell sprouts. The divers who are doing such things are diving beyond their skill level so they are in fact unsafe divers.

I agree with you though.

Don't be so sure. There are places in Chips Hole where Sheck Exley WALKED out on his record setting dive there. Conservation and safety aren't always the same.

[JamesK]

Don't be so sure. There are places in Chips Hole where Sheck Exley WALKED out on his record setting dive there. Conservation and safety aren't always the same.

Ah, but safety was never brought up. It was skills and unsafe divers. Someone going in to a cave that is above their skill level is an unsafe diver. What Sheck did and someone smaking the ceiling and leaving fin and hand prints in clay banks are two completely different things.

[Kevin Carlisle]

Ah, but safety was never brought up. It was skills and unsafe divers. Someone going in to a cave that is above their skill level is an unsafe diver. What Sheck did and someone smaking the ceiling and leaving fin and hand prints in clay banks are two completely different things.

Planning the dive safe im pretty sure they do. Executing the dive while not causing damage is where they fail. They are a poor excuse of a diver in my opinion.

[DA Aquamaster]

Planning the dive safe im pretty sure they do. Executing the dive while not causing damage is where they fail. They are a poor excuse of a diver in my opinion.

Conservation should be a major factor in both planning and execution of the dive. If the diver reaches a point where the dive can no longer be done while conserving the cave (as in the area you discussed in the origanal post) then the dive should be turned. As the diver's level of skill improves, so willl the areas in the cave they can go.

The problem is that divers set goals based on gas consumption, etc and leave out the conservation issue.

Getting there does not mean ****, any bull in the china closet can do that, and that kind of accomplishment should not be considered as a measure of a good diver. Getting there (where ever "there" happens to be) cleanly should instead be the hallmark of a good diver.

[MORGAN]

Agreed!

An old climbing partner (many years ago when my thrust-to-weight ratio was more favorable for such endeavors ) used to say: "It's not the difficulty of the routes you do, it's the style in which you do them."

Then my cave diving instructor told me: "If you can't go someplace in a cave without making a mess and leaving marks, you shouldn't be there!"

[Tegg]

Then my cave diving instructor told me: "If you can't go someplace in a cave without making a mess and leaving marks, you shouldn't be there!"

There are many caves that would have a lot less mapped and explored passages if every cave diver felt the same way. Some of the nicest parts of caves are beyond restrictions that require contact with the cave in some manner.

[MORGAN]

Yeah, you're right, but a skilled diver making a well-considered decision to push a restriction is one thing, and somebody just ineptly blundering along and making a mess where a skilled and careful diver could do it cleanly is something else. Lots of marks in caves are in places where there's plenty of room to stay off the cave. I've been a few places that required some wiggling and scraping, but I try not to do it by accident.