Untrained cave diving in the DR

[phillip1]

Yes we do but despite our best effort and the best effort of the NACD, NSS/CDS, PADI this is still going on so any help we can get is more than welcome. We could also tried to involve the Medio Ambiente (who manage the park) and they really do not care either.
All the above has helped a lot and most dive shops and instructors have stopped taking OW divers on full cave dives, however as in this particular case it is still a major problem hence my asking for your help in sending a message to Uwe which you did and I thank you for it, they may or may not listen.
I am going to lodge a formal complaint to PADI and in fact the regional manager is visiting here next week so maybe that will help.
All we are trying to do is prevent an unnecessary accident from happening and frankly if that means ruffling some feathers and pissing some people off so be it but I will not sit around and do nothing hoping for the best.

[Curt Bowen]

Yes, been there got that shirt many times.

Problem is, there are no scuba police in the DR, and the locals move for money.

Yes we do but despite our best effort and the best effort of the NACD, NSS/CDS, PADI this is still going on so any help we can get is more than welcome. We could also tried to involve the Medio Ambiente (who manage the park) and they really do not care either.
All the above has helped a lot and most dive shops and instructors have stopped taking OW divers on full cave dives, however as in this particular case it is still a major problem hence my asking for your help in sending a message to Uwe which you did and I thank you for it, they may or may not listen.
I am going to lodge a formal complaint to PADI and in fact the regional manager is visiting here next week so maybe that will help.
All we are trying to do is prevent an unnecessary accident from happening and frankly if that means ruffling some feathers and pissing some people off so be it but I will not sit around and do nothing hoping for the best.

[sandy]

...I am currently in Dominican Republic, and have directed numerous cavern diving research projects in Padre Nuestro and Chicho caverns, but we do not allow any IU researchers to cave dive without proper credentials.

Wondering what Beeker considers proper credentials to be. Also, he did not mention "credentials" for cavern diving

[Curt Bowen]

I sent a short, polite request for information (from my CBS News e-mail address), and I got a very prompt reply from the University of Indiana today.

-begin quote-

Gary

Thanks for the communication…. Be advised the video is not Indiana University, and we fully acknowledge the serious training necessary for cave diving. The video looks like a group from one of the local sport scuba shops, and is not IU divers. There is no reference to IU in the video.

I am currently in Dominican Republic, and have directed numerous cavern diving research projects in Padre Nuestro and Chicho caverns, but we do not allow any IU researchers to cave dive without proper credentials.

See our IU news release about our research: http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11644.html

I assume this information is what you are requesting, and hope such on line rumors will get facts correct, before making false accusations about IU academic diving and research activities.

Regards,

Charlie

Charles D. Beeker
Director
Underwater Science
School of HPER, Room 058
Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405
http://www.iub.edu/~scuba/



-end quote-

hummmmmm I may be confused, but in the photo inside his link he provided

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11644.html

I see a diver in OC equipment in the cave.
I also know the diver in the image was not cavern or cave trained.........

[sandy]

hummmmmm I may be confused, but in the photo inside his link he provided

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11644.html

I see a diver in OC equipment in the cave.
I also know the diver in the image was not cavern or cave trained.........

Also interesting in this link, http://www.iub.edu/~scuba/, the description of the various dive courses do not mention any cavern (or cave) training. Additionally, the bios on the various faculty, teaching assistants, and research staff do not mention any overhead training/experience.

I wonder what UI's liability insurance carrier would think of these potential issues.

[Wizard]

They want MONEY, divers have it and they have got away with it so long they do not see the problem.
We can fuss all we want to but nothing will change anytime soon.

I was once told by a guy that to get the overhead cave diving trip in Mexico all you needed to show was 38 American dollars and be at shop at 8 AM.
They were escorted by machine gun toting guys with a Browning machine gun on a Jeep. Talk about a fun trip!
That got him started cave diving BTW.

[Curt Bowen]

Also interesting in this link, http://www.iub.edu/~scuba/, the description of the various dive courses do not mention any cavern (or cave) training. Additionally, the bios on the various faculty, teaching assistants, and research staff do not mention any overhead training/experience.

I wonder what UI's liability insurance carrier would think of these potential issues.

None of the staff, including the teacher has any cave training. Remember he is a PADI open water instructor, why would he need cave training? No ow instructors could ever die in a cave, they are to good.
None of his ow students could ever die either, he is right there to save their lives. That is what open water instructors do......plus he may have his rescue card, so that alone will make it possible for him to save their lives with a pocket knife and a ballpoint pen cover.

Just think what he could do if he was cave certified and had a roll of black duct tape.... WOW. Move over apollo 7......

[WEPIV]

Youtube is saying the video is private but it is also saying something about having to be a google e-mail user to access Youtube now...? (This must be something new as of a couple of days ago.)

[phillip1]

So I guess Gri Gri Divers got in contact with they're unsuspecting OW clients and asked them to take the video down, so I reposted it here since it is a perfect example of how to get yourself killed and hopefully will prevent that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH370_HOkAI

We lodged a formal complaint with PADI and they seem genuinely pissed off that Gri Gri chooses to blatantly ignore the letter PADI sent out a little while ago, so lets see what happens.

[wingman]

This sort of holier than thou attitude displayed on both sides never seems to do much good....before i invoke a reference to 1930s Germany it might be worth noting that any academic institution participating in scientific diving has to have a process in place so that OSHA requirements associated with commercial diving do not apply. That involves the development of a diving control board at the institution and a manual outlining policy and procedures for any research/science diving activities. Some organizations satisy this by membership in the AAUS others use different strategies. It may well be that IU has adressed some or all of these issues in its scientific diving policy manual and then again they may be violating rules...no one here seems to have that info and until you do it is not wise to throw stones... some famous quote comes to mind here, "better to remain silent and be thought a ..." can't seem to remember how it goes. Bill