Untrained cave diving in the DR

[Danseur]

My sister is an alum of U.I. Law. Waiting on a call back from her on her thoughts.

[gschaut]

I sent a short, polite request for information (from my CBS News e-mail address), and I got a very prompt reply from the University of Indiana today.

-begin quote-

Gary

Thanks for the communication…. Be advised the video is not Indiana University, and we fully acknowledge the serious training necessary for cave diving. The video looks like a group from one of the local sport scuba shops, and is not IU divers. There is no reference to IU in the video.

I am currently in Dominican Republic, and have directed numerous cavern diving research projects in Padre Nuestro and Chicho caverns, but we do not allow any IU researchers to cave dive without proper credentials.

See our IU news release about our research: http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11644.html

I assume this information is what you are requesting, and hope such on line rumors will get facts correct, before making false accusations about IU academic diving and research activities.

Regards,

Charlie

Charles D. Beeker
Director
Underwater Science
School of HPER, Room 058
Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405
http://www.iub.edu/~scuba/



-end quote-

[phillip1]

the video I posted is not of Indiana University it was of Grigri divers, I am not sure which one you sent. Curt would have more info on those IU guys.

Thank you very much for taking the time to send an email.

[phillip1]

The owner of Gri Gri is not Uwe.

Uwe is a cave instructor, BUT he was not the diver in question taking OC divers in the cave. (I do know who the diver is, but choose not to release it)

I have already emailed Uwe, as a personal friend and exploration sponsor about this boards concerns. I am positive, Uwe will bring it to the attention of the facility and some changes will be made.

Uwe was not the diver in question but he knows full well what is going on and really does not care about the safety of his unsuspecting clients or would not be sending clients of his on dives like this, and this goes for any Bayahibe dive shop who does this.
according to one OW instructor that UWE hired a little while back, they even sometimes take off the gear walk to the other side of the airdome and continue the dive.
This is the jump you would normally take and then go through the major restriction and continue on.
Yes Uwe was not the "guide" in question but he is just as guilty as in EVERYONE at Grigri of blatant disregard for every single agencies established safety guideline, every single one of them down to the last detail!!
Uwe is full of it too when he claims on his site he explored the longest caves here, what a joke, he never explored anything in the DR ever!!! it is 100% bull, he does not cave dive and invited Lamar Hires to explore caves for him in Pedernales and invited the ADM crew to do the same for him in the Bayahibe area since he does not cave dive! no one in the DR cave diving community has ever heard of any caves actually being explored by Uwe, discovered in Pedenales, yes a few but like I mentioned above Lamar actually did the exploration.

I really don't care if he does or does not cave dive what I really do care about is full of it instructors like that, endangering the lives of countless unsuspecting OW clients for the sake of making a buck, swimming right by warning signs as if they did not exist etc..
sorry but it's a fact and I am really pissed off at the situation, what are they thinking?

I appreciate the fact that you have sent Uwe a message but to reply to your comment taking down the Grigri ad is NOT like asking for the money back after the fact, it is more like dropping a sponsor because they do something totally against your moral, political or ethical views.
If you were to tell Uwe we are dropping all advertising and not doing any more expeditions with you anymore unless you stop doing these unsafe full cave dives with OW clients, I am sure that would really have an impact.

[Curt Bowen]

So what I really get from your last personal rant, is that your agenda is really against GRI GRI and or Uwe, and not really about the fact cave diving standards were violated?

I have emailed Uwe the concerns of this forum, I am not his mother, his father, or even his aunt, thus I think I did my part in an attempt to rectify the violation of cave diving standards.

I could care less what Uwe spews about being an exporer, what or how much line he has laid, how many caves he has discovered, or how much he may have stomped on your toes in the process.

The only subject you originally posted was a video about cave diving standards being violated.

So, fill us in on the original real intent of this thread?

If I am mistaken, I'll retract this post.

Uwe was not the diver in question but he knows full well what is going on and really does not care about the safety of his unsuspecting clients or would not be sending clients of his on dives like this, and this goes for any Bayahibe dive shop who does this.
according to one OW instructor that UWE hired a little while back, they even sometimes take off the gear walk to the other side of the airdome and continue the dive.
This is the jump you would normally take and then go through the major restriction and continue on.
Yes Uwe was not the "guide" in question but he is just as guilty as in EVERYONE at Grigri of blatant disregard for every single agencies established safety guideline, every single one of them down to the last detail!!
Uwe is full of it too when he claims on his site he explored the longest caves here, what a joke, he never explored anything in the DR ever!!! it is 100% bull, he does not cave dive and invited Lamar Hires to explore caves for him in Pedernales and invited the ADM crew to do the same for him in the Bayahibe area since he does not cave dive! no one in the DR cave diving community has ever heard of any caves actually being explored by Uwe, discovered in Pedenales, yes a few but like I mentioned above Lamar actually did the exploration.

I really don't care if he does or does not cave dive what I really do care about is full of it instructors like that, endangering the lives of countless unsuspecting OW clients for the sake of making a buck, swimming right by warning signs as if they did not exist etc..
sorry but it's a fact and I am really pissed off at the situation, what are they thinking?

I appreciate the fact that you have sent Uwe a message but to reply to your comment taking down the Grigri ad is NOT like asking for the money back after the fact, it is more like dropping a sponsor because they do something totally against your moral, political or ethical views.
If you were to tell Uwe we are dropping all advertising and not doing any more expeditions with you anymore unless you stop doing these unsafe full cave dives with OW clients, I am sure that would really have an impact.

[Curt Bowen]

Thanks for your attempt, but the video originally posted on this thread was not IU

But this photo is


http://www.livescience.com/5657-slot...ater-cave.html

This photo was taken over 150 feet from the entrance, well beyond any cavern zone of a diver who was not a cavern certified diver. This specific cave has heavy mud on the floor with basically no flow. Visibility can be reduced significantly with a single misplaced fin stroke.

I sent a short, polite request for information (from my CBS News e-mail address), and I got a very prompt reply from the University of Indiana today.

-begin quote-

Gary

Thanks for the communication…. Be advised the video is not Indiana University, and we fully acknowledge the serious training necessary for cave diving. The video looks like a group from one of the local sport scuba shops, and is not IU divers. There is no reference to IU in the video.

I am currently in Dominican Republic, and have directed numerous cavern diving research projects in Padre Nuestro and Chicho caverns, but we do not allow any IU researchers to cave dive without proper credentials.

See our IU news release about our research: http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11644.html

I assume this information is what you are requesting, and hope such on line rumors will get facts correct, before making false accusations about IU academic diving and research activities.

Regards,

Charlie

Charles D. Beeker
Director
Underwater Science
School of HPER, Room 058
Indiana University
Bloomington, IN 47405
http://www.iub.edu/~scuba/



-end quote-

[gschaut]

"This photo was taken over 150 feet from the entrance, well beyond any cavern zone of a diver who was not a cavern certified diver. This specific cave has heavy mud on the floor with basically no flow. Visibility can be reduced significantly with a single misplaced fin stroke."

Perhaps you could forward that photo and info to Mr. Beeker at the web address listed.

[phillip1]

This is not a rant but the truth, since Grigri are currently the only ones violating all the rules and taking OW into El Chicho, this goes for ALL dive shops but again since Grigri are apparently the only ones then this particular thread is to try and prevent them form doing that. I appreciate the fact that you have sent a message to Uwe, but please don't go there and divert the real issue here when it comes to us trying to improve safety in the DR, this is definitely not a rant but me being fed up with Uwe and ALL dive instructors and LDS who deliberately choose to ignore ALL guidelines and take OW divers way past the cavern zone.

In Uwe's and Gri Gri's case it makes me a bit more angry about the situation when I see an endorsement from ADM a respected technical dive magazine when the fact is that Grigri are clearly violating every single safety standard in the book and in fact Uwe and Grigri divers are an integral part of the serious safety problem in the DR.
I am sure you did not know they were doing this at the time but now you do and hopefully will not be endorsing them anymore unless they stop these unsafe practices, this is your choice 100% and obviously you do what you want but I really think that if you told Grigri you will not do business with them anymore unless they stop that would have a big impact and get the message across.
The problem is NOT just with Grigri but many other dives shops and instructors but since in this particular case the video posted was with Grigri this post is obviously almost entirely about them.

Again I appreciate the fact that you immediately sent a message to Uwe and hopefully he will listen to you.
and I also agree with you 100% about the IU divers too and that is a big problem too and an accident waiting to happen as well.

[Curt Bowen]

"This photo was taken over 150 feet from the entrance, well beyond any cavern zone of a diver who was not a cavern certified diver. This specific cave has heavy mud on the floor with basically no flow. Visibility can be reduced significantly with a single misplaced fin stroke."

Perhaps you could forward that photo and info to Mr. Beeker at the web address listed.

Why Beeker took it

[Curt Bowen]

i have done all I can here

I do not intend on returning to the Dominican Republic unless there is more virgin cave to explore. We have beat the bush in Uwe's area hard enough, that I do not expect much is left.

With that said, I do not expect that GRI GRI will have any impact on my teams return to the DR.

I would think that since you are the expert local cave team in the DR, you would have much more political pull than someone from the USA. Do you not work for the museum of man and hold the permits for cave exploration?

This is not a rant but the truth, since Grigri are currently the only ones violating all the rules and taking OW into El Chicho, this goes for ALL dive shops but again since Grigri are apparently the only ones then this particular thread is to try and prevent them form doing that. I appreciate the fact that you have sent a message to Uwe, but please don't go there and divert the real issue here when it comes to us trying to improve safety in the DR, this is definitely not a rant but me being fed up with Uwe and ALL dive instructors and LDS who deliberately choose to ignore ALL guidelines and take OW divers way past the cavern zone.

In Uwe's and Gri Gri's case it makes me a bit more angry about the situation when I see an endorsement from ADM a respected technical dive magazine when the fact is that Grigri are clearly violating every single safety standard in the book and in fact Uwe and Grigri divers are an integral part of the serious safety problem in the DR.
I am sure you did not know they were doing this at the time but now you do and hopefully will not be endorsing them anymore unless they stop these unsafe practices, this is your choice 100% and obviously you do what you want but I really think that if you told Grigri you will not do business with them anymore unless they stop that would have a big impact and get the message across.
The problem is NOT just with Grigri but many other dives shops and instructors but since in this particular case the video posted was with Grigri this post is obviously almost entirely about them.

Again I appreciate the fact that you immediately sent a message to Uwe and hopefully he will listen to you.
and I also agree with you 100% about the IU divers too and that is a big problem too and an accident waiting to happen as well.