Untrained cave diving in the DR

[Curt Bowen]

I agree with you 100% and in fact it is extremely lucky that no one on the Indiana University team has not died yet, they mostly go to Padre Nuestro which unlike El Chicho silts out really bad, not that the penetrations at El Chicho are any better but at least there is less chance of a silt out and they do not go with 8-10 people at a time or do they?

No they only go with 3 to 5 divers in Padre, but I know from real life experience, if you touch the mud bottom in Padrea you are working in zero vis. There is also a much smaller exit in Padrea (15x4ft) compared to Chicho. (50x30ft)

The University of Indiana is knowingly allowing one of their paid facility to expose young, unexperienced, academic students in an environment way beyond their training level, all to achieve a passing grade. When presented with these facts, in writing, the University simply ignored the evidence and acknowledged (in a round about way) that the faculty was an open water instructor with decades of open water instruction an was above the standards set by the acknowledged cave training agencies.

[gschaut]

Does anyone have any specific information regarding college students? Teacher name, student names, course ID#, dates?

I would love to send flame mail to the University in question, but we do need some specifics to include in the letters.

Thanks, Gary

[Curt Bowen]

Yes, we have all that and sent letters straight to the Dean of the University and emails to PADI.

Both were ignored as if we were illiterate, commoners with corn cob pipes and farmer overalls.

Does anyone have any specific information regarding college students? Teacher name, student names, course ID#, dates?

I would love to send flame mail to the University in question, but we do need some specifics to include in the letters.

Thanks, Gary

[DaveP]

If dive magazines, especially technical dive "magazines" were to stop current advertising for dive shops like this one (shops doing unsafe guiding), maybe the shop would reconsider and stop these careless guided dives. Loosing their advertising might get their attention.


From what I have been told the DR is pissed at this Professor from the University of Indiana, maybe he will not be coming back to the DR caves. He left enough trash in the cave last time!

[JCDdiver]

I left a comment. Not that any of these idiots will care.

Here is my comment:

Wow! Its a very bad idea to conduct dives you aren't trained for, especially in caves! You have no idea how lucky you are...if ANYTHING went wrong while you were in the overhead there is a good chance you wouldn't have been fortunate enough to tell your story. Hundreds of nice OW divers just like you and OW instructors who thought they could do no wrong breathed their last breath while diving in caves. Do yourself and the world a favor and get the proper training before attempting any dives!

[Curt Bowen]

I don't think they advertise in any magazine?
Indiana will always be welcomed back, they have pumped money into that area for over a decade. Money talks...

If dive magazines, especially technical dive "magazines" were to stop current advertising for dive shops like this one (shops doing unsafe guiding), maybe the shop would reconsider and stop these careless guided dives. Loosing their advertising might get their attention.


From what I have been told the DR is pissed at this Professor from the University of Indiana, maybe he will not be coming back to the DR caves. He left enough trash in the cave last time!

[phillip1]

I don't think they advertise in any magazine?
Indiana will always be welcomed back, they have pumped money into that area for over a decade. Money talks...

Actually I think he was referring to Gri Gri Divers (the dive shop in question) advertising in ADM.
http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com...ewspecies.html

[Curt Bowen]

Actually I think he was referring to Gri Gri Divers (the dive shop in question) advertising in ADM.
http://www.advanceddivermagazine.com...ewspecies.html

Gri gri does not advertise in ADM. They have specific banners on editorials that they sponsored to our dive expedition team on in the past. These banners coincide with specific editorials and will not be removed. What someone does from a shop years after a sponsored expedition does in no way require magazines or web sites to back date material and or past advertisement agreements.

That would be like asking you to give back anything (money, lights, gas fills, transportation, lodging, etc.) a expedition sponsor provided your team 3 years ago because one individual from the sponsored company violated a training standard today.

But that's good of you, for picking at straws....

[Curt Bowen]

From what I have been told the DR is pissed at this Professor from the University of Indiana, maybe he will not be coming back to the DR caves. He left enough trash in the cave last time!

From what I saw on our last expedition to the said cave, they raped it of most visual artifacts, than removed these items from the Dominican Republic without proper permit for excavation or extrication.

[sandy]

Phillip, The NACD and the NSSCDS each wrote a letter explaining the hazards of cave diving and the importance of training that was delivered to the various dive shops on the DR. Give us some names and we can address the letters to a specific owner/instructor at this shop. I can forward to someone at the NACD. Maybe the letters can be cc'ed to PADI and TDI which are the two training agencies used by Gri Gri Divers (per their website).