Wisconsin cave diving!

[Tamara Thomsen]

I just spoke with the DNR and what they are looking for is a decontamination plan for diving equipment. They are still unwilling to bend on the use of gear in Wisconsin which has been used out of state- UGH! I'm familiar with the US Fish and Wildlife decontamination protocals, but I don't know how continued and repeated cleaning with bleach and 409 are going to affect drysuit seals, rebreathers, camera equipment, etc. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? Are there any sump divers out there, and how are you dealing with decontamination?

Letter writing at this point is not needed- it's still early in this ruling. I'll let you know if we need to start writing to legislators- which may need to happen if all else fails sometime around March. This just seems so ridiculous.

[FW]

We should come up with something. This would set a bad precident, it could effect cave diving anywhere in the US, including FL, MO, etc.

What we really need to do is convince DNR that there are no bats underwater.

[Tamara Thomsen]

What we really need to do is convince DNR that there are no bats underwater.

The problem is that several of our sites here in Wisconsin sump and they do have bats. This law does not deal with the site specific regulations or applications. Although many of the sites are completely inundated, and we don't come up in dry passage- with the sweep of a pen all cave diving is controlled under the law- so we need to treat all sites as far as decontamination protocals as if we will come in contact with the soil.

[FW]

Hmmm, yea sumps would be an issue.

Try recomending this stuff. It is used to clean out rebreather hoses, and is safe to bathe in. Chlorhexidine Gluconate 2.0%.

[darkdiver211]

What are we protecting flying rats, do they support the local economy. I think we should protect ourselves how many bats does Wisconsin need?

[Tamara Thomsen]

Thanks for the suggestion- is this a funguside?

And Forrest, thank you for recognizing that this is a very scary issue and should be of concern for the entire community of cave divers. Everyone should be concerned, because precident is how governments work.

Here we had a Bat Specialist and Endangered Species Specialist that altered the US Fish & Wildlife regulations to be more aggressive in regulating site access - throwing science to the wind and assuming the theory of humans as a vector in WNS spread as fact (theory is what it is at this point)...I still am reeling in the affect it will have on my business and the affect on exploration and discovery in our state and region.

[FW]

Thanks for the suggestion- is this a funguside?

Hmmm, good question. I was trying to think of something safe for gear. The ad only mentions bacteria.

[FW]

What are we protecting flying rats, do they support the local economy. I think we should protect ourselves how many bats does Wisconsin need?

You won't think this is so funny, if US Fish and Wildlife gets all caves in the US closed!

http://www.fws.gov/whitenosesyndrome/

[FW]

Chlorhexidine is a chemical antiseptic.[1] It is effective on both Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, although it is less effective with some Gram-negative bacteria.[2] It has both bactericidal as well as bacteriostatic mechanisms of action, the mechanism of action being membrane disruption, not ATPase inactivation as previously thought.[3] It is also useful against fungi and enveloped viruses, though this has not been extensively investigated. Products containing chlorhexidine in high concentrations must be kept away from eyes and the ears, due to the risk of damage to those organs. However, chlorhexidine is safely used in very low concentrations in some contact lens solutions.

[EEL]

I know this will not help with any sump caves, but there appears to be a provision in the Wisconsin DNR rule to allow recreational activities in caves where bats have know to be excluded. This should allow continued diving in completly submerged caves where you can reasonably demonstrate that bats have been excluded.

Mark