a hypothetical for discussion

[Sludge]

Actually, the best thing would be to discuss ALL hand signals during the S-drill.

[RN]

The "twirly" sign is not in the Cavern/Cave Diver Workbook 2005, 2006. Was it added later or was it obtained from the small book just for signals? Ok, some are saying to use the "twirly" sign to mean normal exit and others are using it to mean turn around. I was, noticed was, using the thumb to end all dives. If it was an emergency, then there would have been the added fast moving light signal. The worse the situation, the faster the light. This "twirly" sign can get confusing, can't it? I think that Helo Driver was using it when we were diving together and I had to ask for verification. Sorry friend, I get it now. Anyway, I rather like my old way...thumb only or light and thumb. I thought that everyone had those two down solid. So in the furture, I will go over signs and we will work it out together.

It's not in any book. But as happens, things evolve. The issue I have with the thumb and light is that there isn't always an emergency, but sometimes it's just time to leave without sightseeing. That's what the thumb means to me. The twirly finger means let's turn around and do our usual slow exit.

[TONY CHANEY]

Actually, the best thing would be to discuss ALL hand signals during the S-drill.

While underwater?

[Sludge]

The S-drill, or safety drill, encompasses all pre-dive discussion, not just practicing air-sharing.

Although some people call the air-sharing drill "the S-drill."

[jcr]

I agree with NEON. Since when did the thumb become an emergency signal? They are both useful signals but communicate different information. The finger twirl simply means "turn around" while the thumb means we have reached our predetermined limit (gas, time, etc.) and need to exit the cave.

I suspect that the finger twirl has caught on as a means of calling the dive because many divers are embarrassed to call a dive on gas. Since gas is typically what cave divers use to plan their dive limits the finger twirl allows them to call the dive without revealing that they have reached their turn pressure. For this reason alone, I think it is bad form to replace the thumbs up signal with the finger twirl.

Here's an example of how they can both be used effectively on a dive: Two divers approach a split in the passage with line going in both directions (a fork in the road if you will). After a brief consultation the divers decide to pursue the passage on the right. After about 200' one of the divers realizes they choose the wrong passage (for whatever reason) and gives their buddy the finger twirl to communicate that they want to turn around. Back at the intersection, they choose to pursue the left passage. After several hundred feet one of the divers reaches their turn pressure (or realizes that they have reached their turn time-either way, it doesn't matter) and gives their buddy the thumbs up to communicate that they have reached their turn pressure (or time). While they proceed to exit, there is no emergency and neither diver is alarmed. They proceed to the exit in a normal manner. If there had in fact been an emergency the diver would be much better served using an actual emergency signal and alerting their buddy to the problem. The thumbs up does not communicate enough vital information to serve as a useful emergency signal.

To me a a twirl is simply "let's turn around" - we could be continuing the dive, just getting out of a particular passage, etc. A thumb up on the other hand would be an unequivocal "let's get out". If I wanted to get out faster I would signal for my buddy to hurry up. A twirl is somewhat dubious and does not indicate reaching dive limits (be it gas, depth, distance, whatever).

[RN]

There's no embarrassment about turning a dive on gas. For me, the finger twirl usually means personal gas limits have been reached. The thumb means an expedited exit. It's not necessarily an emergency. I do this because I had a situation in which differentiating between a normal exit and an expedited exit was necessary. So, as a result, we came up with a solution for our issue.

[FW]

I have "twirled" dives due to many things, like wanting extra time to negotiate restrictions, knowing there was silt behind us, wanting to check a lead, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone hit gas turnaround.

[sskasser]

There's no shame in "twirling" on gas. Dive with FW often enough and you get used to it The only shame to be had in reaching your turn pressure is if you DON'T turn the dive.

[DA Aquamaster]

JCR, I don't entirely disagree, but again it is context that matters. If I give a thumb anywhere near max penetration it should be a lot more compelling than a twirly finger.

For example, we do a dive fairly far back into a cave, exploring a side passage, where we twirly finger to return to the main line and proceed farther into the cave, the twirly finger again to turn the dive on gas or perhaps deco time, then on the way out we make a leisurely exit, perhaps looking for new area to poke around on a subsequent dive, exploring the cavern on surplus gas, etc. The thumb if used at all on that dive, gets used then or at the end of the deco stop to indicate "let's go up now" - in that context it signals, we are done now and are going up now.

I contrast, if I use a thumb signal any significant distance into the cave, it means we exit NOW by the most direct route with no dicking around and implies that time is of the essence. The reason may be a gas problem, the need to turn and exit now due to accumulating deco, some type of equipment concern or maybe just a level of discomfort. It does nto have to be an emergency but it does convey a sense of urgency that a twirly finger does not. I agree you can communicate the nature of an emergency if one exits, and in some cases you clearly should, but in some cases what matters is to immediately initate the exit and if the situation is otherwise under control, wasting time communicating specifics may be counter productive.

What matters is that the team understands the signal and is able to read what the signal really means in the larger context of the dive, rather than making a black and white assumption or interpretation. If a diver needs black and white and is not able to maintain the SA or problem solving skills needed to connect the dots correctly, cave diving is probably not a sport he or she should continue doing.

When you look at the thumb as just a "turn the dive" signal then it actually has less meaning and clarity as there is no discrimination or reference to how we should turn the dive and exit the system.

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I also agree with the others that there is no shame in turning the dive, for gas or for other reasons. In fact, if you think there is shame in that, you should not be diving and I sure as hell do not want a diver who thinks that diving with me. If that is the case, then the odds are sooner or later, they are going to bust the gas plan or press on past their comfort level and either get us in trouble or lack their share of the team resources they were supposed to have if we got in trouble.

[jcr]

I also agree with the others that there is no shame in turning the dive, for gas or for other reasons. In fact, if you think there is shame in that, you should not be diving and I sure as hell do not want a diver who thinks that diving with me.

Please reread my post. I am not condoning this behavior, merely pointing out what I have observed. I agree, this is dangerous behavior and the reason I believe it is necessary to communicate unequivocally that you have reached your turn pressure. The twirly finger does not accomplish that effectively.

I have "twirled" dives due to many things, like wanting extra time to negotiate restrictions, knowing there was silt behind us, wanting to check a lead, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone hit gas turnaround.

FW, this is my point exactly. The twirly finger is used for a variety of reasons to indicate that you merely want to turn around. However, it's important to clearly communicate to the team when dive limits have been reached. This is why we have reserved a signal for this that cannot be misunderstood.