Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 91
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    LA, CA
    Age
    66
    Posts
    1,566

    Default The "New" Ginnie

    ...ain't so new any more.

    I've just come back from a 5 day trip to Ginnie. It was deeply disappointing.

    My very first dive was to the restriction that there's so much fuss about. It has been eroded to the point where a rock that was barely exposed has now been exposed down about 6 to 8 inches. In other words, a lump of clay about 6 inches deep by 3 feet long by 2-3 feet across has been eroded away by people barging their way through this restriction. That's somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 a TON of clay. Unbelievable.

    The damage is beyond belief. Immediately after the restriction there was dark, black goethite as little as 8 weeks ago. This has been trashed, with white scars everywhere in the rock.

    It's really saddening. Within two dives back there, I had completely flipped sides and was with all those asking me not to publish anything on what lies beyond there.

    I suppose I'll have to live with the fact that it's now trashed. I am utterly amazed at how quickly this occurred.

    Please, please don't go back there if you're not in total control of your buoyancy, reasonably slender and wearing sidemount. Yes, you can bash your way through - but you do every other diver a discourtesy by doing so. You also put your life at risk since any attempt to reverse your course if you're that fat/big/discombobulated/improperly attired is going to be extremely difficult.

    Rose also pointed out something to me when I was there. It's important to realize that if you DO manage to kill yourself back there, you put others at risk who are going to have to haul your overladen and underskilled (and now stiff and immobile) ass out of there. Please have some consideration for not only your life, but that of the people who have to get your corpse.

    There are a LOT of fun dives that you can use to develop your skills - the wormholes both at Ginnie and at Little River, perhaps some of the smaller stuff in the top left corner of Ginnie, etc etc. If you can't get through small silty caves with minimal contact and silt, you have NO BUSINESS going past the gold line at Ginnie. Actually that weird little tunnel where all the catfish hang out at the exit to LR where we put our deco bottles is a GREAT area to practice running lines, handling siltouts and even better, not creating them in the first place. There's some stuff in Downstream Cow off to the left and right that's reasonably trashed yet good practice for doing small silty passages at relatively low risk. If you don't make a regular practice of TRYING to handle little passages in relatively benign situations, don't try it at the back of Ginnie for crying out loud - you'll panic, and kick the crap out of it. And more importantly if you haven't found these spots yourself you have no business going back there.

    There. Now I sound like an old fart also. But I am just astonished at how much a select group of dumbasses have screwed up that cave in 8 short weeks. Well bloody done.

    I have no more intention of ever putting a map into the public. I've had the pleasure of sharing some data with one of the finest divers I've come across, James Toland. He has done an outstanding job of lining some cave where, in all seriousness, it looks as though the line mysteriously got there by a natural process since there is not a single mark in the cave around his line. He also mapped it, and did me the honour of sharing the data with me. I think we'll just keep that stuff to ourselves, since without the map it's pretty hard going back there and easy to go off in an incorrect direction resulting in a very difficult dive. if someone else is able to add to that data then maybe we'll share with them.

    I am embarrassed at how wrong I was on this issue.

    Last edited by aainslie; 11-19-2008 at 07:16 PM.
    Andrew Ainslie

    Almost extinct cave diver

  2. #2
    Special Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Southport (Panama City), FL
    Age
    56
    Posts
    5,732

    Default

    Andrew,
    This post pisses me off more than I can ever remember being pissed off. Not at you, but at the jerks and/or jerkettes that did this crap.

    Thank you for posting this. It couldn't have been easy to see that carnage. It makes me want to maim the idiots just reading about it. Perhaps Darwin will take care of them...just hopefully not inside the cave.

    Shirley

    I Semper Fi, Cameron David Smith, my son, my hero. 11/9/1989 - 11/13/2010

    Never forget, we were all beginners once. Allain Burrese

    My name is Shirley Kasser Creech and I approve this message. Well, at least one of me does, anyway. Maybe. Fire. Sharp things. Squirrel!

    Shirley you're not serious? No, I'm not, but do stop calling me Shirley.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Thinking of Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,241

    Default

    Surprise, surprise. Gary?


  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Apopka, FL
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Andrew,
    It was nice talking to you on the 14th. Sorry your work and effort ended this way. I know you put alot into making those trips. You can share a table with Dave and I anytime!

    Jeff


  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Branford
    Age
    79
    Posts
    856

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aainslie View Post
    ...ain't so new any more.

    ...
    I dove in the 60's and restarted in the 90's . You are 100% right.

    Richard


  6. #6

    Default

    Andrew it was great talking with you on Saturday, and I too am sorry to hear about all the damage back there. On the other hand, great job by you and James to get the area surveyed and mapped !!!!

    I spoke with James back in July at another spring in N. FLA, and you are right about one thing, he is one hell of a guy.

    TJ (2)
    When I get out of cavediving, it will be to learn how to use a walker FW

  7. #7

    Default

    When I first heard about the new exploration at Ginnie and the notorious restriction involved I joked that within 6 months it would be backmountable. I guess it isnt a joke.


  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    918

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rchrds View Post
    Surprise, surprise. Gary?
    What?

    Hey, everyone has to learn the hard way. It seems that there is no way to understand the damage while you are catching up to it and the cave is getting better the farther you go in. Once you are out ahead of it and see the damage crawling forward (or running forward in some cases) it changes everything.

    I imagine most who dove Devil's years ago have either given up cave diving or moved on to new cave elsewhere. Unfortunately, I've been in and out of cancer treatments for the past several years and hiking large amounts of gear to remote locations has been physically impossible for me. Spending time in the "caves of my early years" of diving and seeing the relentless spread of damage has been a sad and painful experience. No matter with what care one approaches diving the caves there will always be some persons out there who see the rare and beautiful formations as little more then a muddy obstacle course. Divers who will claw their way through to where they want to go, who will scooter where only the most delicate side mounter should be. Divers who will write their names in the clay banks of Cow or scratch their initials in the rocks of each cave on their one week FL tour.

    It'd be nice to think that an appreciation of this could be instilled at the training level for every diver. That every instructor and every agency would teach it and believe in it. But that probably wasn't even a realistic hope when there were just two cave agencies and a few dozen instructors.

    And realistically as long as people are still teaching that it is acceptable to damage the caves to make exploration possible everyone will always have a reason to forward their personal exploration by damaging the caves. As long as that is taught and used the caves are doomed. There will never be a passage that someone hears about that will be safe from those that come after.


  9. #9

    Default The new Ginnie...

    Quote Originally Posted by aainslie View Post
    ...ain't so new any more.
    Yeah, big f------ surprise. The area from the Hinkle to the EOL is also trashed thanks to the public nature of this exploration and the increased traffic to a formerly near-pristine area.

    Johnny


  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    2,232

    Default

    that's sad



 

Similar Threads

  1. Mr. "DIC" was at Ginnie
    By chimie007 in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 11-19-2007, 02:26 PM
  2. OFG-1's useless..... MOVED to "The Fill Station"
    By Line Squirrel in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-15-2007, 03:52 PM
  3. SOLD: Sherwood 300 Bar mainfold & 8"x3" bands
    By Oceanus in forum Gear Exchange
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-27-2007, 01:20 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts