Divers doing Stupid Things in the State Park Cave Systems.

[erdcphotoman]

Divers have been diving outside their limits of their certification level and breaking rules of the State Parks. Both your limits of your certification agency and the rules for Cave Diving in the State Parks have been made by some of the most respected Cave Divers in the world. Going outside the limits and rules of your level is exactly what the father and son did the day after Christmas. It is no different when and Intro Diver does a Traverse or a Jump, or an Openwater Dive goes into a Cave, Both can end up DEAD. Don't be the FOOL that your LEGACY is "You are the FOOL that got a system shut down because you got yourself KILLED in that system.

Don't take divers 800' back in Peacock with Openwater Equipment.

Do not do Jumps or Traverses with Intro Divers, did you not learn that in you full cave class.

Also many other stupid thing you are doing, you all know who you are. I know your Cave Instructors would not think you are to bright, and would not condone these activities.

Let's Use Our Heads Out There Cave Divers!

Do not wreck it for other Cave Divers by doing extremely stupid things on your cave dives.

Ranger Chris
Intro-Cave-Diver

[Trey R]

Is this about anything in particular or is this just a random rant?

[T. Bix]

I hope you are sincere and join the larger cave diving community in your efforts to influence divers to remain within their limits. It seems to me as a ranger you are in a unique position to police or at least query divers in your park and maybe help spread the word within the ranger community. I feel compelled to point out that Dillon posted an eerily, simularly, preachy post on another board before he followed his father into a cave in which neither had any business being. I have no reason to think otherwise but I hope you take your own words to heart. I also hope to meet you some day at the front gate or prepping for a dive back by the benches. Thank You Chris and stay safe.

[Diverlee]

Good points. People used to respect the rules. Now.... egos.


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[JCGoodwin]

This is a larger problem than just one Ranger can take on.
I have heard others talk to divers about their plans and it can go either way.
I understand the OP and wish we lived in a perfect world but as we all understand you can't fix ignorance!
The Christmas incident was a horrible example of this behavior.
You can what if all you want it was evident that if it were not eagles nest it would have been another unmanned park or dive site.

As far as ego's you would have to alter DNA and even then I am not sure it would work!


JCG

[Wizard]

Simple and to the point. No rant there, the OP is stating simple known facts.

Maybe we need to replace the Grim Reaper with Ron White's picture. And his famous line, "You can't fix stupid."

[Kelly Jessop]

Divers have been diving outside their limits of their certification level and breaking rules of the State Parks. Both your limits of your certification agency and the rules for Cave Diving in the State Parks have been made by some of the most respected Cave Divers in the world. Going outside the limits and rules of your level is exactly what the father and son did the day after Christmas. It is no different when and Intro Diver does a Traverse or a Jump, or an Openwater Dive goes into a Cave, Both can end up DEAD. Don't be the FOOL that your LEGACY is "You are the FOOL that got a system shut down because you got yourself KILLED in that system.

Don't take divers 800' back in Peacock with Openwater Equipment.

Do not do Jumps or Traverses with Intro Divers, did you not learn that in you full cave class.

Also many other stupid thing you are doing, you all know who you are. I know your Cave Instructors would not think you are to bright, and would not condone these activities.

Let's Use Our Heads Out There Cave Divers!

Do not wreck it for other Cave Divers by doing extremely stupid things on your cave dives.

Ranger Chris
Intro-Cave-Diver

Good advice

We have to consider the outcomes of not following the rules,and being trusted by the managers of the state properties. For example, after KUE had their fatality at Weeki Wachi,and the WKPP had their fatality (off park property),the state changed their rules for the permitting process and made them very stringent. This could have been co-incidental,but perhaps not. If we show wreckless behaviors,then there is already a history of rules being changed. (Please note,I am not saying the two organizations mentioned behaved in wreckless behavior,but suggesting their could be a cause and effect)

[vicp]

Is this about anything in particular or is this just a random rant?

I was wondering the same thing - rant or something specific.

While I agree with most of what Chris writes, the large font with emphatic points, especially coming from a ranger, does come across a bit like an edict from the park scuba police. BTW Chris, nothing personal, I sincerely welcome you into the cave diver's society, and hope you continue with your cave diving and education.

I do have a question - one that has been discussed on this forum to some extent - when diving (at Manatee where you work, any other Florida State Park, or for that matter any place else) would you intercede if you observed someone breaking the park or diving rules (such as lights for OW divers, OW divers heading into overhead, solo diving, intro divers exceeding sixths or running jumps, etc.) and do you wear your diver hat, ranger hat, or some combination of both while diving? Just curious - not trying to be contentious. There is something to be said for park management to see the diver's point of view.

One last comment - I hope this is not taken too negatively. I certainly believe that one should not dive past their competency and comfort level, but I don't always feel that is necessarily reflected by the certification held. A full cave diver may be either rusty or not feel sharp on a particular day, so even the full cave limits may be too liberal. A lot depends on the person's judgement. I have also seen divers with cave cards that in my opinion do not even belong in a cave.

The path to full cave certification is also fairly confusing with different agencies having different levels and requirements (apprentice - no apprentice, thirds vs. sixths, expire - not expire, sidemount - backmount, some jumps - no jumps, etc.). With this hodgepodge of rules it is no wonder that many divers do not consider these restrictions relevant - no matter how well-intentioned. As a full cave diver, many of these certification limits do not apply to me anymore, but as my training was spread out over several years, there were times that, shall I say, I "tweaked" some of these limits (as have MOST other cave divers) as they were part of my skill-set and training at that point. Now I am limited by my judgement and hopefully common sense. I still have to figure out (or tolerate) the necessity for further certifications, i.e., cards - not training, mind you - that the agencies feel I may need to have (sidemount cave even though I took full cave in sidemount, stage, dpv, etc.).

The Christmas tragedy at Eagle's Nest was not a case of some intro diver exceeding sixths or practicing a jump - it was the action of an idiot akin to someone jumping off the Empire State Building thinking they could fly.

[FW]

OK guys, give Ranger Chris a break! We are very lucky to have a ranger that actually cave dives, and cares enough to post about a problem. We all should be supporting him! The large font got your attention, didn't it

[Diverlee]

Thanks Forrest.


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