IUCRR and Eagle's Nest Incident

[Shadowjack]

Taking my own advice, and starting a new thread.

So I want to talk about IUCRR and the incident at Eagle's Nest. I want to smooth things over with everyone, I know there is a lot of talk right now on how things happened.

Here is how Eric Deister saw things: The Family called Robert Brooks, he called 911 and the divers he knew that have been in recoveries before. Going down the list of divers able to do a recovery at 300feet ( NO one had a clue where they were in the system so they had to plan for the worst case) Matt and I picked up the phone, I know I wasn't near the top of the list so if they're calling me they're hard up. I loaded up everything thing from my breather on down. Fast forward to me on the dock with the guy in charge of the operation. I asked if anyone had been in the water (basin) to look for them there, not yet. There was some talk about getting support divers in the morning there but the media will be there by then ( I saw NO news reporters the whole time I was there ) I offered to go scooter around the basin to look and check the deco log out and maybe just drop down to look in the cave at 70'. I didn't see anything in the basin (read no O2 tanks). The Viz was great so I gave myself the go ahead to just peek in the system. There I saw Vic #1 only about 10 feet away. No sign of Vic #2. I was NEVER in the overhead ( held onto the line ). On surfacing I talked the officials what I saw and that I thought if he was right there the other can't be far away. Matt and I agreed that we could recover them from the ballroom safely. The officials said to recover them now to bring this horrible day to a close. We did.

It was a call by the officials on site to do it before the media got there and bring closure for the family as fast as possible on Christmas. Believe me on this, if they were not in the ballroom we would of gotten more support.

So should the IUCRR been called after 911? Yes, but let me ask Robert Brooks this (and everyone reading this)- do you carry the phone number for IUCRR with you? I don't. There was a gap in communication on every ones part. I " Assumed " that one of the divers in the phone chain made the call to IUCRR. I was wrong. BUT just for the record Matt and I talked about it at the site about the report we were going to write up for IUCRR.

I would hope that everyone knows Matt, Robert and I knew the risk we took going into EN and that if we couldn't do it safely we wouldn't of done it.


Eric Deister


And another note: Looking at my NACD and NSS-CDS cards there sure is a lot of space on them for printing a emergency number to call. Someone might want to talk to the agencies about adding the IUCRR number.

[patpicos]

Are there other agencies than iucrr that is tasked with recoveries in Florida?
I think the authorities should have a process in place to reach out to a recovery agency when such an incident occur instead of hoping someone on site remembers to reach out to them. This would require some education with the authorities.

Also having a single agency for recoveries should increase the number of actual reports and publishing. From what I can see, Iucrr seems to have the majority of ginnie incidents documented....but I doubt it is the same for other locations.

[bpcfire1]

do you carry the phone number for IUCRR with you?..


I do have the number in my phone along with some members of the org. I have spoke to several members of Pubic Safety in surrounding counties, and they have no clue who the IUCRR is or what they do.

[phreaticus53]

The IUCRR came into being back in the early/mid 80's, after quite a few recoveries that were poorly handled...mostly by the local law enforcement authorities who thought that their non-cave trained divers were able to handle the situations...especially deep cave sites...and found out that they had no clue about what they were doing.
Henry Nicholson was the spearhead for this, and was the individual who organized the "regional" concept for recovery team contacts, leaders, and dive teams to be contacted, depending on the environment that was involved. Divers that mostly dive the Panhandle should not be doing recoveries in the Nest, and vise versa was the concept. Know the environment first!
I was involved with a recovery at Chicken Farm Sink, in NE Tampa, in 1979 where the local police looked for a lost diver for two days (basically a tannic hourglass type sink, no real cave per se').. one of our local cave divers, a scientist for the Tampa Port Authority, offered the cave diving communitie's help...and was turned down. After the two days, we were called and asked for help. We found the victim in :05 minutes, entagled in his own guideline by his fin buckles at around 160 ft. or so, after locating his guideline almost immediately after submerging, tied to a log. (one similarity to the Eagles Nest accident two days ago...no cave training, wearing full cave gear)....
I think this, and other incidents in that era convinced the law enforcement community that the cave diving community could be an asset. Since Henry was a cop, it all fell in line after that.
I have photos of the first recovery seminar ever done, at Little River, circa 1981/2 or so....with Sheck, Forrest, Mark Long, Mary Ellen Exley, Steve Omeroid, Henry Nicholson and others...and some in the cave, with Sheck as the "victim".....

In the case of Wednesdays accident, I think that the recovery divers did a superb job...quickly, safely, and efficiently. If they had waited another day to gather a large support team, which was not necessary due to the close proximity to the cave entrance, good visibility, rebreathers, etc.....the media would have been climbing all over it...sort of like the one there in '04 (?) with the other double fatality who were certified cave divers, which dragged out over four days, got one person bent, and caused untold additional stress to the families and all others involved.

[Jax]

Thank you, Eric and Matt.

So sad for your Christmas Day.

[LCF]

IS there a central IUCRR number for people to call? If there is, I for one would put it in my phone.

Not on the IUCRR topic, but having been involved years ago with an absolutely horrendous multiple homicide on Christmas Eve, I feel horrible for those of you who had to do this recovery. I know Christmas Eve has been tainted for me by what I had to do years ago, and I suspect it will never be the same for you guys, either. My hat is off to you, whether you went through proper channels or not.

[Ken Hill]

Eric,

Just a few thoughts about your role in the recovery and things that the IUCRR offer. The first is WWW.IUCRR.org, our web site that you or any other person can access. It will give you or any law enforcement officer the purpose of the IUCRR and plenty of ways to contact us. As explained to someone else earlier today if you can spell IUCRR and have Google, that's all anyone needs. Works world wide, is time tested and is fast.

The IUCRR is there for you. So you can assist the IUCRR and its mission with safety, dignity and respect. Some chronic gripers think differently or not at all. We've thought this thru and comply with the best practices in law enforcement, federal regulations and safe diving practices.

I cannot stress the importance of the RRSOM. Someone there looking out for YOU. Someone there dealing with law enforcement on the scene to make safe choices for you possible. Our Law Enforcement Advisory Board speaks to law enforcement on their level and explains why certain things are done a certain way. We have a Diving Medical Officer that may determine your fitness to dive after a long day and is capable of analyzing your dive plan requiring DECO, CCR, scooter etc. ... all looking out for you. We have a Legal Officer to intervene on your behalf if need be. Law Enforcement cannot order you into the water. Like in any dive you have the final say. The press is a Law Enforcement responsibility and only law enforcement people deal with the press. The IUCRR does not speak to the press or post its findings on the internet. It's OK to say the recovery went safely, or state it was tough, but no more. Some years back an IUCRR diver told the press that the IUCRR had the training, personnel and gear to dive anywhere. Sounds innocuous right? However that Sheriff was going thru an election and was criticized in the paper for spending $75,000 of taxpayer money for dive gear when the IUCRR would do it for free.

Bad things happen to good people. Suppose you got hurt or dead. Your kin may not be notified when no one is in charge or they may never come to understand why you were there. The RRSOM knows who you are and who to contact in an emergency. Larry Green knows Eagles Nest better than anyone, but a simple drop downstream on a recovery bent him. Without the IUCRR you may find you have no health or life insurance coverage because your actions were outside the activities of sport diving. What would you do if denied by your carrier? It was pointed out to me earlier by a woman that knows insurance they may deem you a professional and deny you coverage. The IUCRR through the RRSOM will always be able to cite why you were there and name the law enforcement personnel requesting your services. This simple record keeping could afford you state workmens compensation or death benefits or perhaps get your insurance back because you were complying with a law enforcement request and be treated as any first responder would..

Lastly, you choose when to make the dive and who to dive with. Things are set up for your security and safety and we remove as much peer pressure as we can. If law enforcement has to spend the night while you get a good nights rest... that's what they get paid for. Hypothetically, if a matter comes to litigation and you are asked "Did you go to a Christmas party that day?" Was there alcohol at the party?" "Did you drink any?" Are you sure?" All questions to disparage you and your good name. A fresh early morning start might eliminate some of that as well as taking undue pressure off you and the team.

So again, your recovery dive was flawless. I want you and Matt around and hope l'll never need you again. So stay well and dive safely.

[TONY CHANEY]

I believe that I made a suggestion a few years back about putting emergency numbers on the sign at all the dive sites. I think that I suggested it after the directions to Cow was placed on the sign. OBTW, the directions to Cow being put on the sign was a great idea.

[TeddyB]

Did someone get butt hurt over the sequence of events? Or procedures followed? I know Matt and Eric personally, I would trust them with my life. They are both experienced divers who made their skills available to do a nasty job on Christmas Day. The operation was undertaken and completed swiftly and efficiently kudos to them, it's easy to sit back and question after the fact. These guys took care of business. Respect to both. My .02

[mdax]

Does this statement have any validity or is it just fear mongering?
"Without the IUCRR you may find you have no health or life insurance coverage because your actions were outside the activities of sport diving"

Do you actually have ANY data pointing to an insurance company who has refused or would refuse coverage for volunteer rescue divers that would somehow be covered if it was an IUCRR action?

You claim someone may "deem you a professional" if you volunteer but not if on the IUCRR team...which is what, something different than volunteering?
Does the IUCRR have insurance for their actions and team members?

Reads like people are sore for reasons that don't resonate at all with me and should be giving support and sympathy to the recovery team.