I always run a line
I sometimes don't run a line at an entrance. I always run a line at jumps.
A don't always run a line at jumps. I always run one at entrances.
I sometimes do and sometimes don't run lines at both entrances and jumps
I never ever run a line at either.
Originally Posted by aainslie
Unfortunately the videographer lost his battle with a long term illness,but if you need verification the safety divers are still around.
Mr Aainslie I hope your comments to people who question you at the NACD workshop where you are a speaker,don't end with the above comments.
Moderators the needle is into the yellow zone of a civil discussion when we have people being called liars.
Last edited by Kelly Jessop; 09-24-2009 at 04:53 AM.
"Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick
When someone continues to badger two of the most respected cave divers in history, a meeting of the moderators is in order.
Whoever said money can't buy love never bought a puppy.
Andrew, we won't ban you for your theories on the rules, but we can, and will ban you for flaming another member of the forum.
Consider this an official warning!
So why are things different for divers that scooter? Why do they not have rules to follow? I think that was the point Andrew was trying to make about in his psi/ft thread. There seems to be rules for swimming but when you get a scooter, its ok good luck don't dive thirds its not conservative enough and take AL along with you. I may be completely from because I do not scooter, just what it appears from an outsiders perspective.
Just out of a morbid curiosity, which is worse? You referring to Andrew as "insane" or Andrew implying that Kelly is mis-stating something?
Sludge - I miss Karl also. I believe that if you were to extend a personal invite to him, he would return.
"Have you ever noticed
When you're feeling really good
There's always a pigeon
That'll come shiat on your hood?" John Prine 4-7-2020
"Into the blue again; in the silent water
Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads
I was referring to his techniques, not him. I changed my post now anyway.
I simply said it changes the risk computations...while you can do some silting swimming imagine what can be done scootering, especially with a runaway scooter...back in jb there's some evidence about what can happen with a runaway scooter. Scooters add to the risk and alter what you do to manage it. All i was saying was that cave diving is about risk management and decision making.
"With regard to cave diving, the great thing is to be carried where you could not have imagined you would ever be, and then to come back alive."
"Wilderness. The word itself is music." Abbey, Desert Solitaire
It was intended as humour. Still, a bit heavy handed. My apologies. I just found it amusing that there are videos of you apparently doing jumps without a line.
Which still leaves the question... why make a video where it appears you're doing jumps without a line?
Russell - the badgering, I want to point out, has been thoroughly reciprocated by those same two. Still, if you think banning is the way to handle this, so be it. You could add Ken to the list of badgerees in your prosecution. Do I get to appoint a defence?
Huh - an interesting piece of sophistry.
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Anyway this thing has gotten hugely off track. Problem is, I do sometimes enjoy debate per se, and I let humour get in the way of making a point. Bad idea - my bad.
This thread has run its course anyway. 1/3 always run a reel. 1/3 sometimes don't run one at an entrance, but do at jumps (however some of those accidentally entered it thinking of locations like Peacock where many would argue the line runs to open water - so let's say 1/6). And 1/3 often don't run at either.
So something like 1/2 of divers regularly ignore this rule. I propose that this needs addressing. Any rule so widely broken is no longer working.
Last edited by aainslie; 09-24-2009 at 09:11 AM.
Andrew Ainslie
Almost extinct cave diver
I think the point of the videos is to show the cave system, not to be a guide on how to cave dive. While its easy for those of us trained in cave diving to pick up things like that, I dont see it being as big of a deal as long as there was a plan in place, as Kelley has clearly shown that there was in his video.
The sad part is, this thread had a chance to grow some legs and becomes a decent discussion, but instead it has turned into the kind of threads I am use to seeing over on Scubaboard.
apology accepted,although I don't see intent of humor or satire that is self evident
Need a Ouija board to ask the videographer his intent. He wanted video through cave passages with a person in front for reference to size,not a study on cave diving techniques. FWIW I was unfortable with a couple aspects,and had specific instructions for the safety diver,especially linesSo... why make a video where it appears you're doing jumps without a line?
I want to call it civil debate,and discussion. If it is more than you desire then any party can sign off. I don't think I have said anything deragatory,especially in a negative context to character.Russell - the badgering, I want to point out, has been thoroughly reciprocated by those same two. Still, if you think banning is the way to handle this, so be it.
"Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick
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