How often do you run a line?

[BabyDuck]

well, if peacock doesn't count, then i amend to 'always both places'.

[DA Aquamaster]

I ran a line at Peacock during training.

I'm another "always except a primary at Peacock" vote.

Happy 200th post sweety!

[stairman]

Always in OG never in P1 unless O.W vis is poor.

[FW]

Ken, who are you to be the ultimate arbiter of what is good or bad for cave diving?

Andrew, if you don't know the answer to that, you need to do a little research.

[aainslie]

Ken, I don't care what you say, there are some interesting lessons in those numbers there. Empirically, it's exactly what I thought - most divers do not always run lines. 1/3 don't always put in lines, at both entrances and jumps.

Do you really think that this isn't a point of discussion amongst divers after they finish their classes? And do you really think that this is best left to them to learn the hard way when it's good to run a line, and when not? Since they can't ask their instructor (s/he will simply say "always run a line" one more time) they ask arbitrary people with arbitrary levels of common sense and experience. The result - arbitrary practices, occasionally (perhaps often) resulting in dangerous situations.

I learned the hard way. I didn't bother in the top left of Ginnie. I missed a jump on the way back, and had a pretty nerve wracking time swimming a pretty big loop. I actually run a lot more jump reels now than I did in the early days. I won't give you my own internal rule system as it's probably not a great one. But given that we know that a lot of divers do this, why not talk about when it's safe and when it isn't?

This reminds me of excessively harsh parenting. If a parent says "You shouldn't have sex. And I don't ever want to hear about you having sex", that kid will go off and do so in uncontrolled ways, often extremely irresponsibly. The parent runs a fine line - but discussion about sex rather than the pretence that it doesn't exist is more likely to lead to reasonably responsible behavior. At least with any luck s/he won't end up being a 16 year old parent, or having an STD.

There's a huge difference between "always run a line" (that's as likely to be obeyed by most divers as the speed limit is by drivers) and "Here is a way to think about when it's a dumb idea to NOT run a line".

Not to mention those moments when cookies and jump reels are not enough... and MORE thought needs to be paid to what to do.

Cave diving is complicated. Pretending that it's simple (and hence amenable to a simple rule system) won't make it so

[aainslie]

Andrew, if you don't know the answer to that, you need to do a little research.

Forrest, with respect, no-one has earned that title. And no one ever should. Learning dies when we elect emperors, kings, tsars, caesars etc..

[atedeschi]

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9918

this is a poll i had a lil while ago, just to get an idea of where people are doing what.

[quarrydiver]

With all due respect Andrew, it is my personal opinion that it is absolutely NEVER OK not to run a line. One should always maintain a continuous line to OPEN water, even if the gap between open water and the overhead is as little as 1 ft.

There is no question that many people who dive Ginnie regularly do not put a primary in and carry out a lot of visual and/or blind jumps. They obviously get away with it most of the time. However, when unforeseen circumstances arise, whether this be a decrease in visibility, an out of air or low air situation, a delay of some sort, a medical problem, an ear problem, etc…., the last thing one needs is increased stress arising from having to think about which way to go back on a visual jump, rather than simply following a continuous line to open water. This isn't simply one of the 5 rules/guidelines of cave diving developed by Sheck Exley, but something the ancient Greeks figured out over 5000 years ago, albeit in the context of a Cretan Labyrinth (remember Theseus and the Minotaur).

In addition, when diving with a buddy, placing jumps serves to maintain communication and make safe transitions. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, as I wrote in another thread, that visual and blind jumps were a major contributory factor in Bruce's accident at every level of the dive, and contributed to lack of situational awareness and buddy separation.

The bottom line, in my view, is that not placing jumps simply reflects a high degree of complacency, particularly as there is nothing difficult or time consuming about running a reel or spool if one practices. (If one doesn't, of course, it's a whole different story). One can get away with complacency for much of the time, but eventually it will get you, particularly in a cave.

If one wants to make an analogy to the above water world, I would equate running lines as the equivalent of wearing a seat belt in a car. Unless one is involved in some sort of accident/collision, the seat belt really doesn't do much; i.e. one can get away with not wearing a seat belt much of the time. But it only requires one incident to make the difference between coming out of an accident unscathed versus a severe injury or worse. That's why not wearing a seat belt is illegal.

Marius

---------------
Marius Clore
NACD Equipment & Technology Chair

All opinions are personal.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I've run a primary at P1 before, but its not something I do every time. There has been a few occassions when I haven't run a primary at JB, but typically, I'll run one even if the team decides it isn't necessary.

Lots of the caves I dive have line coming out to OW anyway, that kinda makes things easy :P

[Sludge]

This isn't simply one of the 5 rules/guidelines of cave diving developed by Sheck Exley, but something the ancient Greeks figured out over 5000 years ago, albeit in the context of a Cretan Labyrinth (remember Theseus and the Minotaur).

Not to mention Hansel and Gretel...