NSS membership poll

[billyf]

Wow it seems as so many people are missing the point.

No one is discussing splitting the CDS from the NSS, the NSS is a great organization and we are part of it.

The discussion is whether the CDS should continue to FORCE its members and potential members to become members of the NSS in order to be a member of the CDS.

The NSS does not require Grotto OR Section members to become members of the NSS in order to be members of those Grotto/Sections.

I think a better question is: Should the CDS continue to force members to be NSS members in order to be CDS members?

I think we should remove the requirement of NSS membership but still promote NSS membership.

[Marc Bryan]

Wow it seems as so many people are missing the point.

No one is discussing splitting the CDS from the NSS, the NSS is a great organization and we are part of it.

The discussion is whether the CDS should continue to FORCE its members and potential members to become members of the NSS in order to be a member of the CDS.

The NSS does not require Grotto OR Section members to become members of the NSS in order to be members of those Grotto/Sections.

I think a better question is: Should the CDS continue to force members to be NSS members in order to be CDS members?

I think we should remove the requirement of NSS membership but still promote NSS membership.

I agree. Excellent post.

[Arnold Mesiser]

As far as I am concerned the majority NSS members DO have an interest in cave diving and a portion of what ALL NSS members pay for dues etc does go to the NSS-CDS through the structure of the parent organization alone. I may be wrong but this is my perception

I also believe funds for cave diving/dry caving expeditions around the world have come from the NSS on occasion as well as the NSS CDS.I think the extra charges for CDS membership allow even more specific support of cave diving on top of support already created by the NSS itself-this may be required as there is a LOT more dry caving projects to support and basic membership may not cover extra projects. Cave diving articles and reports are in the NSS newsletter (of course not specifically as the UWS does that) so I do believe there is a -cross the board interest in cave diving or the content would drop out due to lack of interest.

I think if you go back historically-The NSS has given a lot in money-support -infrastructure to support cave diving and submerged cave conservation before it ever received benefit from the NSS CDS membership dues.

They are both great organizations and I am more than happy to support both as ultimately I support cave conservation and education- I feel I am well represented by both bodies.I also really appreciate all the volunteering involved.


P.S. If NSS CDS dues encourage/facilitate even ONE NSS member to sherpa to a sump - WELL worth it for that alone LOL not to mention the great benefits available.


reading some of the responses I think people feel I was suggesting everyone needs to love all caves..certainly not the case.I simply stated ...I... do ... so it makes wanting to join all the bodies easy. I would never feel forced to join becuase I want to support both.


I always realize people will have varying degrees of interest within any realm,what I don't understand (and I mean no inferred superiority if it is read that way etc I simply do not understand) how someone could like one cave type and have ZERO interest in others--lower interest I understand ..zero- I do not. Maybe someone can expand and help me see how?


I don't expect dry cavers to be passionate about cave diving as it is not their focus (although many are IMHO) BUT their membership in the NSS does help support cave diving - again IMHO

inversely I do not expect cave divers to have as much passion for dry caving - I would like to think that they all want to support one another to some extent though.

Laws created for conservation/education and progressive caving techniques come from all types of caves and benefit ALL cavers/cave divers/sump divers /speleologists etc

Be glad you at least HAVE a national caving body !

[skip]

Wow it seems as so many people are missing the point.

No one is discussing splitting the CDS from the NSS, the NSS is a great organization and we are part of it.

The discussion is whether the CDS should continue to FORCE its members and potential members to become members of the NSS in order to be a member of the CDS.

The NSS does not require Grotto OR Section members to become members of the NSS in order to be members of those Grotto/Sections.

I think a better question is: Should the CDS continue to force members to be NSS members in order to be CDS members?

I think we should remove the requirement of NSS membership but still promote NSS membership.

I am always in favor of fewer requriments and more promotion.

-skip

[Oister]

APPENDIX D

(Refer to Act 64-145)
Amended 03-15-08:27A&B, 03-05-05

POLICY FOR INTERNAL ORGANIZATIONS




4 B. Full membership in Internal Organizations shall be open only to members of the National Speleological Society.

[icestac]

what I don't understand (and I mean no inferred superiority if it is read that way etc I simply do not understand) how someone could like one cave type and have ZERO interest in others--lower interest I understand ..zero- I do not. Maybe someone can expand and help me see how?

I like cave diving, but have negative intrest in dry caving. Now mind you I have not been in a dry cave in many years, but I believe it all stems from my severe respect of heights (may be read as fear). One of my first experiences in a cave required me to shuffle along my belly to a point at which point the cave opens up into a large room and there is supposedly a ledge that I need to trun around backwards and drop down and TRUST that there is a ledge there. Now other people went first, but I still did not want to do it. I did it and survived, but I don't like stuff like that. I don't want to repell, be on a rope, a ladder, etc. I just don't like heights. I can't fly and I will hit the ground and hurt myself.

Now underwater is a different story. I can go in small bedding planes and feel like I have all the room in the world. I can go up to the top of a large room, swim around anywhere and fully enjoy the experience.

I hope this helps explain why I don't care to dry cave.

Cheers,
~Jeff

[BobK]

Well I just love the NSS magazines.... I just don't have time to add more caving into my life as it's full already.

stunning photos..

LL

Maybe it's me, but when the dry caving magazine shows up I can't remember ever actually opening it up. I can't image walking, climbing, crawling, slithering, or falling inside some dark cave with a light on my head.

But when the NSS/CDS mag comes, and it isn't often enough, I'm through it by the time I get back to the door from the mailbox. Cave diving is the neatest thing !

[Arnold Mesiser]

I like cave diving, but have negative intrest in dry caving. Now mind you I have not been in a dry cave in many years, but I believe it all stems from my severe respect of heights (may be read as fear). One of my first experiences in a cave required me to shuffle along my belly to a point at which point the cave opens up into a large room and there is supposedly a ledge that I need to trun around backwards and drop down and TRUST that there is a ledge there. Now other people went first, but I still did not want to do it. I did it and survived, but I don't like stuff like that. I don't want to repell, be on a rope, a ladder, etc. I just don't like heights. I can't fly and I will hit the ground and hurt myself.

Now underwater is a different story. I can go in small bedding planes and feel like I have all the room in the world. I can go up to the top of a large room, swim around anywhere and fully enjoy the experience.

I hope this helps explain why I don't care to dry cave.








Cheers,
~Jeff

I understand why people don't want to actually dry cave-maybe I am not wording it right.You also have no interest in any articles or photos about dry caving as well or just doing the actually caving.

[RN]

Maybe I have misunderstood, but isn't the NSS an organization that supports all caves - dry and wet? By being supporters of cave conservation (albeit the focus of some CDS members may be only on underwater caves), shouldn't we support an organization that supports all caves? It seems most of you are classifying the NSS as a dry caving organization. I don't see it that way. I see it as a caving organization and the CDS is simply a type of "grotto". Rather than being geographically limited like most grottos, the CDS limits itself to a particular type of cave. This is why I support the NSS.

I've done dry caving and would like to do more. But, like most of you, my heart belongs to the underwater caves. But I really don't see how the NSS does not support me in my true love. Cave conservation is cave conservation, whether the cave is air filled or water filled.

[divindoc]

As a protest against having to join the NSS, I only pay up when I'm going to a workshop. If I don't go to the workshop one year, I'll let my membership lapse. I'll remain a non-member until I decide to go to another workshop, then I'll pay up. If I go to this year's it will be the first time I've been to two in a row.

I think it's ridiculous to force me to join a group in which I have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST.

If they were to change the rules and allow me to join the CDS only, I'd go ahead and get a Life Membership.

What Sludge said!