Too many primaries at Devil's eye.

[curtschu]

But now it's the "ME" society...me, me, me get the &%$ outta my way because here I come. Whether on the road or in caves, it's the way ,unfortunately, our society has evolved. Nobody wants to wait for anything these days. Even if it means putting someone else at risk.

Ha!! I remember a time when you could talk to the other teams and work out putting a cloths pin on the reel going in and take it off when you left and use one reel for two or three teams Come to the reel no pin pull it. Pins leave it. If it's yours the last team out gets your reel back to you.

[marinediver]

I have a suggestion. If you go in the Eye, and there are already several lines, don't add another one. You have several options:

1. Go back out, and enter through the Ear (river entrance)

2. Go ahead in through the Eye, and don't leave a reel. if you come back, and all the reels are gone, exit out they Ear.

3. Pick one reel, and leave a slate on it, offering to remove it for the owner, it they get back first. Tell them to confirm that they did indeed exit. If you get back, and the reel is gone, follow #2 above.

I dont think that advising people to not run a line is a great idea. Do I run a reel in Devils, No I dont. But you will not see me advising others to do so it is a personal choice. Secondly, I would have no problem leaving a line anywhere in a system if we had talked about it with the other team, but If I came back to my reel and someone had left a note or a cookie or what not on it, I might just pull it anyway. I remember something about not counting on other peoples lines.

[RN]

Ha!! I remember a time when you could talk to the other teams and work out putting a cloths pin on the reel going in and take it off when you left and use one reel for two or three teams Come to the reel no pin pull it. Pins leave it. If it's yours the last team out gets your reel back to you.

It still happens on occasion. I had that situation at Twin Caves about a year or so ago and it worked out nicely. That entrance just isn't big enough to run many lines through.

I dont think that advising people to not run a line is a great idea. Do I run a reel in Devils, No I dont. But you will not see me advising others to do so it is a personal choice. Secondly, I would have no problem leaving a line anywhere in a system if we had talked about it with the other team, but If I came back to my reel and someone had left a note or a cookie or what not on it, I might just pull it anyway. I remember something about not counting on other peoples lines.

You'll notice that Forrest's first option was to go out and through the Ear. Chances are that at a place like Devil's on a busy weekend, there will always be at least one line still in place. If there's not, then the proper procedure would be to run a reel out to open water and then another back in to retrieve your first reel. However, at Devil's the flow is likely to push you right out to open water anyway.

[stairman]

I personally dont run a reel either.Especially when there are many run already.Except at night of course.I do however run a reel on the swim between the eye and the ear.

[FW]

I dont think that advising people to not run a line is a great idea. Do I run a reel in Devils, No I dont. But you will not see me advising others to do so it is a personal choice. Secondly, I would have no problem leaving a line anywhere in a system if we had talked about it with the other team, but If I came back to my reel and someone had left a note or a cookie or what not on it, I might just pull it anyway. I remember something about not counting on other peoples lines.

I didn't say not to run a reel. I just said not to run your own reel, if there are already other reels there. The line to the Ear is within the "safe exit" distance from the surface, which is what is being taught now.

Do you think people should run a reel in the river entrance (the Ear)? How about Peacock 1? Both of these places have the permanent line run right to the entrance, just to avoid the spider web of lines.

[Rich]

The line to the Ear is within the "safe exit" distance from the surface, which is what is being taught now.

Just so everyone's aware of this, NSS-CDS is the ONLY agency teaching this "safe exit" stuff, other agencies that teach cave diving, GUE, NACD, NAUI & TDI require your primary tie off to be in open water, which is what I demand from my students......

Safe diving,

Rich

[Wizard]

I remember seeing someone tie off on a rock on one of the steps coming out of the Ear. The line was maybe reeled out 25 feet. I guess the idea was reel it in and it would get you to the vertical opening in the Ear and flow would do the rest.

[Line Squirrel]

Do you think people should run a reel in the river entrance (the Ear)?

Larry Green made us do it in Intro and Full every time we went in the Ear...ANY and ALL cave entrances for that matter...to o/w, no exceptions.


What is this "safe exit" stuff!? First I've heard of it. When did they start that?

[Oister]

Larry Green made us do it in Intro and Full

Ralph D. and Corey M. Made me do it For Intro and Cave 1

[MengTze]

Just so everyone's aware of this, NSS-CDS is the ONLY agency teaching this "safe exit" stuff, other agencies that teach cave diving, GUE, NACD, NAUI & TDI require your primary tie off to be in open water, which is what I demand from my students......

Safe diving,

Rich

Thanks for the clarification Rich. I was wondering. Not to say I agree.

What was 'not an option (i.e. run a line every time, don't even think about 'safe exit' distance) has now become 'safe practice' that is taught. What is next? When there is high enough flow and you are back with 1/2 your gas, no need to run any line (any silting will clear up in minutes)? Let the flow push you out? How does a new student gauge what is a safe distance? Does the flow count and affect that distance?

But that is another thread.