Manatee Springs fatality?

[Diverlee]

I want to understand exactly what happened and how one could avoid this. Accident analysis. Me and my girlfriend are shook by this incident and want to learn from it. Looking at the cave maps it does look like an easy traverse from Catfish to the head spring. Can someone draw a more accurate map showing the danger and how to avoid it? Did she stray from the guideline? Is there no line?

Start at the beginning of the post. Read the 2 or 3 articles. Then you should understand


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[Diverlee]

As someone who has not dived this site what it sounds to me like at this point is that there were 2 ways out of the cave, a main way and an alternate way. In times past the alternate way would have been fine, but there was a cave-in a couple years ago that has made it into a gnarly restriction. The restriction combined with the high flow caused her to be wedged and pinned in a way that she could not free herself, and no one else had the gas to go back and help her, or they were afraid of being wedged themselves. Why she went that way or if she intended to or simply wasn't paying attention or worst case was forced that way by the current is still unknown and no one has suggested anything regarding how or why she went the alternate way.

I think you got it!


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[oceancurrent]

I ruled out the Catfish-Manatee traverse a couple years back after failed attempts to verify the Manatee exit (too strong of flow to penetrate against). Unverified traverses are a no-no in my book. For the same reason I avoid going into syphons like Lightning spring which have potential to turn into a one way trip. Call me wimpy tourist diver - I am fine with it.

It sounds like the group found a way to exit less the female. I wonder how she ended up elsewhere pinned. Must have been a hell of a recovery effort.

(I think I have met a group from china at Peacock matching the description here. They seemed well equipped and knowing what they are doing. The only unusual thing about them was that the males couldn't wait to drop their cylinders before lighting cigarettes. Never understood mixing up heavy smoking and diving. Sad to hear they lost a diver.)

Sadly, most of us will never get those answers. If you're close with the recovery team or someone that is, you may get the answer. Otherwise it's unlikely most people will know. (snip) Complete detailed recovery logs stopped being released years ago. It's just the way it is unfortunately. More can be taught by having the details but in today's litigious society and all of the internet hooplah, it's understandable.

I think the community is making excellent progress with the Eagle Nest and Kalimba reports. Sheck had the right idea that accident analysis reports should be made public for the sake of evolving the community's risk comprehension and management approach. The aviation community has been doing it for long long time with excellent results. Just check out the NTSB web site containing full details on every single aviation incident since 1962 (https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/Month.aspx)

I don't comprehend the regressive mentality of the IUCRR of the last few years. Liability and speculation control are just some sort of random excuses that make zero sense. There is no excise for holding back safety related information that could prevent future occurrences of the same accident and letting gossip run wild. Learn from the best practices of the longer established safety-oriented technical communities out there. Anyone who feels otherwise should incinerate their copy of the Blueprint for Survival and hang up their fins.

[Germie]

In february 2017 I dove Manatee and we tried to get in from Manatee springs, that was not possible. Then we went to Catfish and dove to Friedman. That was possible, but still heavy current. A few days later a local took us to Friedman were we did a circuit and then let is flow to Catfish and then out to Manatee springs. You need to do it one by one and after you exit, grab the tree, throw yourself over the tree or you will miss your decostop. Yes it was a great dive, but I would never do this exit without a local. The same person now says you cannot do the exit anymore. So I would not try to do it nowadays.

[bent]

How would one avoid dying like this?

Hey CaveSloth, I just came across a good example of what not to do if you dont wanna die in some dead end. Just don't do what germie does and if you have a cave instructor who tells you to do a blind traverse... run.

... we tried to get in from Manatee springs, that was not possible. Then we went to Catfish and dove to Friedman. That was possible, but still heavy current. A few days later a local took us to Friedman were we did a circuit and then let is flow to Catfish and then out to Manatee springs.

[Kelly Jessop]

As someone who has not dived this site what it sounds to me like at this point is that there were 2 ways out of the cave, a main way and an alternate way. In times past the alternate way would have been fine, but there was a cave-in a couple years ago that has made it into a gnarly restriction. The restriction combined with the high flow caused her to be wedged and pinned in a way that she could not free herself, and no one else had the gas to go back and help her, or they were afraid of being wedged themselves. Why she went that way or if she intended to or simply wasn't paying attention or worst case was forced that way by the current is still unknown and no one has suggested anything regarding how or why she went the alternate way.

I understand wanting answers because with every accident questions like this arise with newer people especially. Cave diving has its hazards which can be unforgiving, and when an accident happens people want answers as form of the defense mechanism rationalization, to basically validate their doing the sport, because this won't happen to me because..... Right now the best we have is speculation because the answers may or may not come out, and if we are lucky the dive buddies will fill in the blanks of missing information. Fast moving water has its hazards, and performing exits from the head spring at Manatee has always been very difficult. Advice going forward- get a mentor, go slow, ask questions of people familiar with systems, be conservative 1/3rds is overly liberal, stay within your limits to name a few.

[Kelly Jessop]

Yes it was a great dive, but I would never do this exit without a local.

No offense there are no locals with magic powers to ensure someone's safety. Once you are in the flow you are at the mercy of the water, and there is no verbal communication from a local that can help you with the process. The best a local can do is give you surface instruction, and if you get in trouble maybe/maybe not help you. If the conditions are real challenging there are 3 people that can help: me, myself and I.

[Germie]

No offense there are no locals with magic powers to ensure someone's safety. Once you are in the flow you are at the mercy of the water, and there is no verbal communication from a local that can help you with the process. The best a local can do is give you surface instruction, and if you get in trouble maybe/maybe not help you. If the conditions are real challenging there are 3 people that can help: me, myself and I.

True, but there are sometimes places that are better a first time with someone who knows the site. When we did it, it was the 'old wide' opening. The person were we dove with now says also you cannot do it anymore. When we did it, you could go back to Catfish if you really wanted from the place I took the picture. But once in this exit you could not go back anymore.
This was a picture I took from the opening:

Now it seems to be just 1 man wide.
So it is not possible anymore. If you don't have the information that it is blocked now, this could be a risk, because on maps it looks like it is possible to do and on old videos you also can see people doing it. When we looked at the exit during a dive in Manatee itself you could see the tunnel inside. Where it widened again. I don't know how it looks like now, from Manatee you don't see the cave inside anymore?
The best to tell people not to do it anymore is to let them sign this rule when signing up for diving I think. Only go upstream from Catfish. And change maps to tell people the exit is now unsafe blocked or something.

[bent]

Interesting, so according to an IANTD instructor you don't have to set up a traverse anymore? You just have to ask somebody whether it's ok? Is that what people being taught these days?
I was taught to verify an exit for myself and don't do any trust-me circuits and traverses.

[OFG-1]

Interesting, so according to an IANTD instructor you don't have to set up a traverse anymore? You just have to ask somebody whether it's ok? Is that what people being taught these days?
I was taught to verify an exit for myself and don't do any trust-me circuits and traverses.

Must you pick an accident thread to start sniping at people?