I think it's a valid question/comment. It seems to me that the reason for the accident was them doing a blind traverse. Now in this thread we have a cave instructor saying a blind traverse is not a big deal. IMHO, that's ridiculous. Sugarcoating it, doesn't make it better. Being fake nice to unsafe instructors doesn't make anything better either.Originally Posted by OFG-1
Words that are never mentioned are put in mouths to let people think that someone said it. I just talk about a dive we made more than 2.5 year ago when it was possible to do the exit. The dive is all history, cannot be done anymore. I talked to the person who took us there and he now states that since the collapse he doesn't do this exit anymore. It was 'quite' normal to do it that time. But now it is all history.
This topic is about an sad accident. We don't know the diveplan, but if the divers have looked at maps and have seen video's of the exit on Youtube and did not know that it is collapsed, and also have read that you start a dive in Catfish and can/could do the traverse to Manatee (that is written on several old sites), then it is sadly possible that they decided to try it. We had also read that you don't start in Manatee springs itself, but we wanted to take a look, also because of the 'lake' was pretty intersting becuase of turtles, fish, etc. And normally you prefer to start against the current. Then we went to Catfish, talked to some other divers, swam to Friedman against the current. Back at Catfish we did a carefull look at the downstream part to Manatee. And swam back to Catfish. I don't know how far we went in, but people told us then that you could swim back till the place I took the picture later. A few days later, diver who lives there invited us to start at Friedman, do the circuit, than go to Catfish and out at Manatee. Bad or wrong, it is not part of the accident. It is only a dive that WAS possible and was done by more people. And yes, videos and pictures about how it was can be found. So misinformation about the actual situation can be found. A lot of people think caves don't collapse.
I think the best discussion is about how to prevent people to try to do the exit at Manatee in future. In 2017 there was a rule not to start at Friedman as long as you didn't dive from Catfish to Friedman, so it would not be strange to tell people when you sign in that you cannot go downstream from Catfish. Another thing that can be done is a line with markings on it on the downstream side like you have in the Trou Madame in France. There is a sign on the line that 'blocks' the tunnel (not big) with 'DEAD' on it.
Hey guys, have a little respect, someone died.
Arguing online about how the Park should mark and/or notify divers about the headspring only points them to the simplest solution to prevent incidents...
Jeff Rouse
Chicago, IL
Are you afraid that the site will be closed? The park already has some rules about diving (max amount of divers per day, only do Friedman if you have been from Catfish to Friedman, tell them when you leave). So is it wrong to tell new people not to exit Manatee then? Just a question as I haven't been there since february 2017.
And of course I hope the site will not be closed. And with some easy things you can make it safer I think and maybe this sad story did not happen. I really hope people won't be against cave diving there.
Hey guys, have a little respect, someone died.
Arguing online about how the Park should mark and/or notify divers about the headspring only points them to the simplest solution to prevent incidents...
Though there's a little arguing going on, how the park should manage it is a valid point. As you will see from the start of the thread, I stated I was pretty sure there was a collapse or something that made the exit impassable. Multiple people hadn't heard that. All of my dive friends I asked hadn't heard that. I thought I'd read it here in a post, but in reality it was a fb post I had seen. That's a major change in a cave system. When pothole become an invalid emergency exit things were changed and posted here. I agree that getting the park involved is ideally the last resort because it brings more attention to cave diving than we'd like. Unfortunately, you're not going to stop people from doing blind traverses. I'd love to think this tragedy will fix that, but it won't. Maybe the park doesn't change rules now after 1 death, but who's to say they won't ban cave diving if another person dies in the same spot. I would much prefer the park have a notice to divers or some other way of making divers aware so this can be avoided as opposed to an eventual ban.
The divers I'm talking about that didn't know about the restricting of the exit are all local florida cave divers. So if they didn't know, how likely are infrequent vacation divers to know? Not likely.
No one should plan their exit in a siphon tunnel without knowing if the exit is viable. That's basic cave diving, but so is not doing blind jumps, and I have watched 2 local cave instructors do them in Ginnie. You're not going to suddenly cure people doing things the wrong way.
I can't imagine how horrific this is for the family, especially the husband. I hope they find a way to get through it as painlessly as is possible. Such a sad event
Does anyone know if all four of this group were trying to exit at the same time?
"Have you ever noticed
When you're feeling really good
There's always a pigeon
That'll come shiat on your hood?" John Prine 4-7-2020
"Into the blue again; in the silent water
Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads
Happy hour. Just don't snipe at anyone and then get a second and third accident thread for free.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
A sad event, condolences to the family.
That's how I was taught within IANTD
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