Choosing Dive Buddies

[Nitrogenius]

Maybe we need a sign explaining what the rope is for

The videographer knew to use the rope
Did I see correctly that there are actually two ropes crossing and are these leading to different sections?

[FW]

The videographer knew to use the rope
Did I see correctly that there are actually two ropes crossing and are these leading to different sections?

There is a normal cave line parallel to the rope. That line runs the whole length, but the rope only is in the high flow area.

[Kelly Jessop]

I think I have seen the video. If it is the one I saw on Facebook the camera man is Guy Bryant. I think he has been cave diving since the early 70's. His normal subject is Paul Deloach. Paul has been diving since the 60's. He doesn't frog kick either and I have seen people bash the videos on Facebook. I personally enjoy watching them because other than the lights Paul is using it is old school. It just goes to show how far things have come. For those that don't know the flutter kick must work for them as Paul Deloach is who Deloach's Delight is named after. I don't know the diver in this video but I take it he is old school and probably uses split fins for a health reason. Times have changed but I hope Guy keeps making the videos.

Paul DeLoach is an amazing person, and an amazing cave diver. I have been fortunate to make quite a few dives with him, and consider him a mentor 20 years when I was newbie cave diver. Of all the "old timers" he is still very active, and highly encourage you to say hello, because he (along with Guy Bryant) are very approachable, but have forgotten more about cave diving, than many know.

The modified flutter (hopefully we aren't using the flutter kick in the caves) is a great skill to master,but all too often forgotten after the demonstration dive in cavern training. There is strong dependence on the frog kick and pull and glide,but the modified flutter and shuffle kick have become a lost skill. I love these kicks, and use them quite often. For example,when in a narrow passage where the side walls are close together, a frog kick is so inefficient because you can't abduct your legs to generate good thrust, while with the modified flutter, your legs stay together, thrust is generated backward away from the wall, and can maintain good speed. I love to alternate my kick between frog kick and modified flutter based on the passage up ahead, firstly for efficient propulsion,but is sound cave conservation technique to vary fin/leg position based on cave shape. The other thing that I really enjoy about the modified flutter is that I can vary my pitch based on altering my ankle with more or less dorsiflexion. Hence, I can make my self head down/feet up very quickly to adjust to the passage, and visa versa. I have huge amount of respect for these guys, try doing a modified flutter only, nonstop in flow, for over 500ft next time you dive- if not used to it,it will wear you out.

[rddvet]

Are you saying that the finning in the video around the 1:35 mark is modified flutter? I was taught the modified flutter all through my instruction, and I don't think my instructors would have considered my skill adequate if mine was similar to that in the video.

Just to reaffirm though, I think pulling and gliding in an inappropriate place is what bothers most of my teammates and I that viewed the video.

[bamafan]

I think Kelly was talking about Paul Deloach doing the modified flutter. He is better in the water. I have been told the diver in the above video in Cow is an old retired Jersey wreck diver. I guess old habits are hard to break.

This is a video of Paul
https://youtu.be/yxB9BDhj0l4

[rddvet]

I think Kelly was talking about Paul Deloach doing the modified flutter. He is better in the water.

https://youtu.be/yxB9BDhj0l4

I was confused as usual

[MichaelAngelo]

Actually fairly good video. Too bad he didn't have a better subject. Maybe we need a sign explaining what the rope is for

Luckily that was sand he was pulling on, not silt. The next flood will erase the hand prints in sand.

Another question. Can you actually frog kick with split fins?

No you can't

[MichaelAngelo]

Paul DeLoach is an amazing person, and an amazing cave diver. I have been fortunate to make quite a few dives with him, and consider him a mentor 20 years when I was newbie cave diver. Of all the "old timers" he is still very active, and highly encourage you to say hello, because he (along with Guy Bryant) are very approachable, but have forgotten more about cave diving, than many know.

The modified flutter (hopefully we aren't using the flutter kick in the caves) is a great skill to master,but all too often forgotten after the demonstration dive in cavern training. There is strong dependence on the frog kick and pull and glide,but the modified flutter and shuffle kick have become a lost skill. I love these kicks, and use them quite often. For example,when in a narrow passage where the side walls are close together, a frog kick is so inefficient because you can't abduct your legs to generate good thrust, while with the modified flutter, your legs stay together, thrust is generated backward away from the wall, and can maintain good speed. I love to alternate my kick between frog kick and modified flutter based on the passage up ahead, firstly for efficient propulsion,but is sound cave conservation technique to vary fin/leg position based on cave shape. The other thing that I really enjoy about the modified flutter is that I can vary my pitch based on altering my ankle with more or less dorsiflexion. Hence, I can make my self head down/feet up very quickly to adjust to the passage, and visa versa. I have huge amount of respect for these guys, try doing a modified flutter only, nonstop in flow, for over 500ft next time you dive- if not used to it,it will wear you out.

it wasn't a modified flutter kick it was an open water flutter kick, sorry

[Nitrogenius]

There is a normal cave line parallel to the rope. That line runs the whole length, but the rope only is in the high flow area.

ah... ok thanks

[Kelly Jessop]

it wasn't a modified flutter kick it was an open water flutter kick, sorry

Wasn't really discussing the merits of the video, because there was reference to several videos. I was pointing out the merits of a proper modified flutter kick which has become a lost art, and the benefits to cave conservation that it can provide based on the passage type. A full flutter kick, not a good thing in caves.