Jackson Blue conditions?

[RN]

I think the primary reason that nitrates are unlikely to be the cause is the seasonality of the visibility decline.

The seasonality also corresponds with colder times of year when the golf course would be receiving more fertilizer to keep it healthy when it otherwise wouldn't be because of colder temperatures and less rain.

But this is your field of expertise. I'm just basing my theory on my observations over the past 10 years. I may be way off on this because I really don't have the knowledge that you do Jason.

[jason]

Actually, Hole and Twin are about equal in flow. I've felt higher flow in Hole on occasion. One thing about Hole is there are 2 main passages that both dump out of the same hole to the pond. The flow from each side is different at times. I've seen the flow from one side overpower the flow from the other and it gives the appearance of a siphon on one side for several hundred feet until the opposing flows equalize. This happens from one side or the other. Not sure why it's not consistent. I've just witnessed that it's not.

I would love to get data on this. I think the state would also be very interested. I can help you set these up and we can even look at overlays to decide where in the systems these loggers would best be positioned.

I'm in the process of setting up my lab at USF, so I'll order a bunch of temperature loggers and we can figure out the best places to install them. If I'm not able to make it up there in the next month or so, I can always turn the loggers on here and send them up with instructions for installation.

[jason]

The seasonality also corresponds with colder times of year when the golf course would be receiving more fertilizer to keep it healthy when it otherwise wouldn't be because of colder temperatures and less rain.

But this is your field of expertise. I'm just basing my theory on my observations over the past 10 years. I may be way off on this because I really don't have the knowledge that you do Jason.

And I'm merely speculating without any first hand knowledge of the caves in question....

[Kelly Jessop]

I think the primary reason that nitrates are unlikely to be the cause is the seasonality of the visibility decline.

Over the last two decades I have seen visibility decrease. In HITW, upstream was always crackling blue, but the water seems more dingy frequently. This may be attributed to nutrient loading.

[Ben M]

And I'm merely speculating without any first hand knowledge of the caves in question....

Jason, your speculation is pretty good. There are about half a dozen different water sources for HITW. My observations are in line with the temperature gradient/densities for the seasonal vis. change in the front of the cave.

The vis turnover is most easily observable after the first strong rain of winter. If we've had cold conditions, the water in the front of the cave doesn't change very quickly. If you have those conditions of cooler pond water, the next good rain really gets the system syphoning the pond water.

Flow probably lessens the effect but even when HITW has flow you can still see pond water going into the system. If you sit in the entrance restriction you can watch cold water going down and the spring flow coming out. Also, you know the issue is working from the cavern into the system as poor conditions start near the entrance and work their way back vs starting in the back and working their way forward.

[Ben M]

Over the last two decades I have seen visibility decrease. In HITW, upstream was always crackling blue, but the water seems more dingy frequently. This may be attributed to nutrient loading.

Kelly, I don't doubt the vis is lower more often, but the issue in discussing is absolutely seasonal. Reduced water quality means it hangs around longer and the effect is even worse, but I think the mechanism is always present.

[Kelly Jessop]

Kelly, I don't doubt the vis is lower more often, but the issue in discussing is absolutely seasonal. Reduced water quality means it hangs around longer and the effect is even worse, but I think the mechanism is always present.

That what I was talking about in the beginning of post #18.

[Ben M]

That what I was talking about in the beginning of post #18.

I think the golf course would only be affecting the source water coming out of the passages around the 1st downstream T. There are other clear and poor sources waters in addition to this area.

[Kelly Jessop]

I think the golf course would only be affecting the source water coming out of the passages around the 1st downstream T. There are other clear and poor sources waters in addition to this area.

I agree I think there are a couple dynamics going on. Anybody plot the recharge areas though?

[Ben M]

I agree I think there are a couple dynamics going on. Anybody plot the recharge areas though?

Not individually, but as part of the pond.

http://publicfiles.dep.state.fl.us/D...-01_NWFWMD.pdf