P II

[TracyN]

Hmm, I smell a troll.

[twaldo]

Sadly there are people that break rules. Instructors cannot do anything about it once the student has completed their training and graduated from their course. During training, the instructor can stress why the rules are in place and to gain experience slowly -- the c-card is a license to learn speech.

FWIW, I witnessed four brand new certified openwater divers do a dive to 85' in August. They just completed their certification the day before. If I were to extend your logic, instead of an OW certification their course should have included a deep diver specialty.

I think there's a place for the NAUI progression (I'm a NAUI cave instructor), but I don't think it's appropriate for all people. But I view a NAUI Cave 1 card as very similar to the NSS-CDS/NACD "Apprentice" level, except that it doesn't expire. It's a "zero to almost hero" course. Many people are better served by just staying on the gold line while developing the skill and awareness to quit bumping into the ceiling rather than adding navigational decisions and complexity into their diving.

I think there's something to be said by completing Intro then going and doing 20-30 dives before progressing further. There's a lot of cave to see well within those limitations.

CDF is really missing out on the LIKE BUTTON... there are so many things I would just LIKE rather than comment on.

I feel like NAUI Cave 1 was the PERFECT certification for me. Like you said, gives me the training required to be able to complete the skills within that certification. I can do 2 nav decisions (doesn't mean I should run out and do it) which allows me to work up to that level. I've only done 2 jumps outside of class and that was with way more experienced divers leading the way.
I was Cavern certified for 3 years before I took the Cave 1 class and albeit to EVERYONE elses chagrin I will probably be Cave 1 for at least as long (thankfully my cert doesn't expire )

Those OW divers were violating their standards... we are all adults, but then they don't have gas limitations and are not in an over head environment. I tell my students there is NOTHING stopping them from diving to 300 feet after they are certified, but that I really wouldn't suggest it because they don't have the training or experience.
I do believe that when the 6ths rules were created there was a reason for it but maybe now it is time to revisit those reasons.

Just like Nantahala falls was a class IV-V in the 70's IV in the 80's III in the 90's and I THINK now it's considered a II-III rapid... Skills improve with equipment rapids get down graded. Why isn't it the same with standards.

Not arguing, just trying to make a valid point.

Tim

[twaldo]

This bumping into the ceiling issue makes me truly appreciate organizations like GUE that require a student to master the entire skill set required for full cave, before starting the overhead training. Cave training is to learn about cave diving, not to learn basic diving skills.
And to get back to the ceiling bumps, neutral buoyancy and awareness of your surroundings is not something that should be attempted to learn in a cave either. I bet your instructor will get a real bad headache reading all this.

Keep up with the posts, your falling behind.

[twaldo]

Hmm, I smell a troll.

BINGO
they want to hate me so much that they just fall right into line when I want them too.

[nakatomi]

BINGO
they want to hate me so much that they just fall right into line when I want them too.

Apart from wasting peoples time with the trolling, it's your reputation that you are flushing down the drain. Just saying.

[Jack Hammer]

I really like GUEs cave 1 limit of 1/3 of 2/3s. It's gives one enough gas (more than 1/5 but less than 1/4) to not want to break standards and enough reserve to deal with a situation.

Sent via

[twaldo]

Apart from wasting peoples time with the trolling, it's your reputation that you are flushing down the drain. Just saying.

Listen to Pete and Draker and I never had a reputation to begin with. I am NOT the one that takes these posts on a downward spiral, sorry if I threaten some ones Man Card because I don't dive with a dry suit. But when everyone starts attacking I can either go cower in the corner or feed the flames.... I choose to feed the flames.

If you want to see how I dive, lets go dive. If you don't like the way I dive afterwards you never have to get in the water with me again.


Tim

[Kelly Jessop]

I haven't seen an intro diver die in a couple of years but the last few were definitely full cave. Maybe I'm reading the wrong accident reports.

There were several,some with things involving DPVs. If you think about it the safest cert level is cavern diving. Remember a certified cavern diver having an accident while diving with in their level (School sink and P3 don't count)? We have cavern diving accidents in Mexico,but those are noncertified cenote tours.

[FW]

There were several,some with things involving DPVs. If you think about it the safest cert level is cavern diving. Remember a certified cavern diver having an accident while diving with in their level (School sink and P3 don't count)? We have cavern diving accidents in Mexico,but those are noncertified cenote tours.

I think that "diving within their level" is the key here. School sink, and P3 were certainly beyond the cavern level. The intro diver that died in P1 doing a circuit, was way over intor level. Same for the intro diver on the DPV.

[Draker]

CDF is really missing out on the LIKE BUTTON... there are so many things I would just LIKE rather than comment on.

Tim

I agree. This is a much needed feature from which we could all benefit.

OR, you could just spend less time posting and actually go diving.

Reading and writing about cave diving is not going to help your trim, buoyancy, or SAC issues. Nor will you learn how to quit bouncing of the ceiling.

You recently posted something on FB about a 1.9 SAC. I honestly had no idea that was possible.

Here is my offer to you. Once you have a well fitting, fully functional drysuit and know how to use it, send me a message and we'll go for a dive. Somewhere shallow, simple and easy. Somewhere that doesn't violate any of your standards. And somewhere well within your comfort level and commensurate to your abilities.

But please, for the love of all that is holy, in the meantime, go DIVING. Gain some actual experience. Work on your skills. Perfect your buoyancy.

And most importantly, quit posting all this nonsense.