Cookie vs. Arrow vs. REM

[kwinter]

Mine are actually cookies, from which I can tell my exit direction by personalization. I do not carry unpersonalized cookies..
So to say I am using only arrows and REMs in a cave, no cookies..

Ditto for me. Except I am saying maybe to use only REMS and not cookies or arrows.

[Nitrogenius]

why do you need to do that? sounds like a solution looking for a problem to me

Because if you tie directly onto a line (and I am talking about an offboard Jump not an end of line Jump) the line is suspect and capable to move. It even might be moved as far as being out of reach of your cookie.


This is how I have been taught (always tie into a marker in that case even an arrow going offboard), and it had been demonstrated in training that it only takes one inattentive diver passing to move your directly tied line out of reach (e.g. by catching it with the fins and push it etc etc.)

[Nitrogenius]

Ditto for me. Except I am saying maybe to use only REMS and not cookies or arrows.

For me an arrow is still the preferred way to tie into as in a potential stress/no vis exit the check/identifying of the marker and direction is in fact faster and more secure.. Hitting a REM (and that might be the only real disadvantage) the verification that it is yours takes a tight bit longer and care.
Kelly is right in that regards..

[victorzamora]

Exactly. Victor you seem to forget the most essential point of a REM! When you find one on a line (no matter how stressed or not) you KNOW that this is not a permanent marker, so you KNOW you MUST only trust your own markers, so you MUST verify whether such REM is yours or not. If it is not yours or even if you are unsure, you are safer to ignore it as if it was not there at all and find the next arrow / cookie negated arrow to confirm direction (if you where unsure, which you should not as I agree with Oliver on this aspect)

Like I've said before. I personally get it. We all get it at the surface when everything is fine. I'm wondering how much you'd get it under a real emergency. There are stories on another thread of a diver mistaking a sidewinder style primary for the big red Dive Rite top handled primary.

As for modified cookies versus the pro manufactured square ones: that's precisely what I'm suggesting as the best of both worlds. It's a cookie to others but an arrow to you.

[Nitrogenius]

And then there would be the liars that are so embarrassed by their shortcomings that they place an incorrect marker.

Someone got some spare 42 mils ? hahaha..

[victorzamora]

Someone got some spare 42 mils ? hahaha..

0.42mils? I didn't think they came that small. A friend professionally does micro machining, so I could ask him

[Nitrogenius]

As for modified cookies versus the pro manufactured square ones: that's precisely what I'm suggesting as the best of both worlds. It's a cookie to others but an arrow to you.

Yes but there is only quite limited ways to make a cookie directional for oneself as well.. As soon as this is more and more practiced and copied you get to the same issue as with the readily manufactured REMs

[Nitrogenius]

0.42mils?

oh you want a 0. added.. Sure .. 0.42 '' diameter works as well

[FW]

After nine pages of this, and most of you haven't figured out WHY there are REMs in the first place. They have little use in Florida, since there aren't many caves where they would be needed. They are for Mexican systems with multiple entrances, and multiple routes through the system. The whole point is to mark the way you came, and not confuse other divers taking a different route. While I do agree that that is what clothespins, and cookies are for, they aren't hurting anything.

[Nitrogenius]

So what are clothspins for?
I learned these were for antiques


Kidding aside: I understood that clothspins have been used in lieu and exactly as a cookie.
Somehow I get the impression that in Florida these are used for a specific reason other than in lieu of a cookie?


If the clothspins are used as a Cookie how do you resolve marking your direction at an offboard Jump when the arrows are not pointing towards your exit?