Comfort Level in Crappy (very low to no) Vis

[Sludge]

That is where communication on a signal for I'm gone comes in. Leave a light or personal arrows or something. A detailed "to whom it may concern" note would be nice.

I've never had to use it but it's there if I need it. (My name is on the other side.)

[gschaut]

Excellent idea! Will add to my dive kit.

Thanks.

[AB8CD]

My biggest problem with "zero viz" is the inability to read any of my gauges. I have to really be mentally prepared to measure time internally as I address the task at hand. Rough but conservative.... singing songs in my head takes about three minutes. Being aware of my breathing rate, etc. I am always happy when I get enough visibility in the dive to check pressure...

I totally get Squirrel Girl's "Zen" comment


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[victorzamora]

My biggest problem with "zero viz" is the inability to read any of my gauges. I have to really be mentally prepared to measure time internally as I address the task at hand. Rough but conservative.... singing songs in my head takes about three minutes. Being aware of my breathing rate, etc. I am always happy when I get enough visibility in the dive to check pressure.

Singing songs is a huge benefit for in-head timing. It really helps calm you down because you should know exactly how long the song takes. There was a point where I had to mentally time a bunch of tasks between 3-8 minutes. I'd use different combinations of songs and could get SUPER close. In cave diving, maybe pick a pair of songs that add up to 5min. You need to know every word well and not stumble/hesitate, that's the biggest problem I had at first....and the more lyrics, the better. You want unique lyrics to not repeat, and you don't want a ton of music between lyrics. Maybe agree with a buddy: If we get lost, two songs after separation you're clear to surface without me.

[Aotus]

::subscribed::

None of the answers work for me. After ~700 cave dives I don't freak out in very low vis, but I'm still not happy with it.

I answered too soon...this is more like how I feel too (but with significantly fewer dives). Someone recently asked me why I don't like the catfish in Hole in the Wall cave in the Mill pond. I answered because they stir up all the silt. "does that make you uncomfortable?" My answer was, it did at first, but no, now it just makes it less pretty. I like seeing everything, especially in such a cool cave.

I think I close my eyes, too. I call it "going to my zen place."

I was amazed that turning all visual cues off (during training) was so zen - that's exactly how I described it. Even a drill I was nervous about trying, once the lights went out (for me, with a blackout mask) I was cool and focused. I never thought about actually closing my eyes if/when I find myself in a real zero vis situation. Interesting thought.

My first 8 years of diving were in gin-clear conditions. My worst dive outside of training still gave me 100ft+ of visibility, and my training was conducted in 50+ft of visibility. Then I started river diving and zero viz became the norm. Then I did ZERO VIZ in a cave, and realized what zero viz meant. First it was (obviously) drills. Lights all went off and so did the masks. The first couple times I was nervous.....but it was because it was new. After Cavern/Intro, simulated zero-viz was no problem but I was worried about what a real-life scenario would do to my nerves. Come to find out, I was nothing more than frustrated with poor viz and frustrated+extra aware in zero viz.

The worst part for me is that I get a bit of vertigo every so often.....especially if my buddy is pulling on me. Any time I get to a tie-off or solid point and the vertigo has hit, I stop/focus/breathe for a second and then carry on. It just takes a second for it to pass if I have a fixed point of reference and makes me MUCH more comfortable and MUCH swifter on the exit.

I still get vertigo in open water sometimes. Between that and seasickness on the boat, I began realizing I don't miss the pretty fish enough to deal with that.

I noticed this summer that I could see my hands at arm's length because they were so pale. My black drysuit faded into the murk fairly quickly, but then I could see my hands because they were "bright."

I noticed this in a lot of footage I've seen in siltier conditions than I've experienced. As a result, I've been trying to use more white in my gear, and experimenting now with red reflective tape. Black on black on black is the worst. Good thing we learn to find everything by feel/muscle memory, but if you have to find something on someone else, guess you just have to get real crafty about touching and tugging on everything before you find the right hose/harness/knife.

I've never had to use it but it's there if I need it. (My name is on the other side.)

Good thinking...you really like that labeler. I wonder if something like this was used in the recent JB incident...would be terrible to finally get yourself out of a jam only to be unsure if your (absent) buddy got out OK.

[Kelly Jessop]

Good thinking...you really like that labeler. I wonder if something like this was used in the recent JB incident...would be terrible to finally get yourself out of a jam only to be unsure if your (absent) buddy got out OK.

This has been a frequently discussed item. People in an emergency situation,perceived or real,are they really going to stop and look at markers? I have talked to many instructors who lead lights out air share drills in a simulated emergency,and they have noted participants are on the line,some are verifying the exit by feel of line arrows,and some are not,but nobody looks at the multiple cookies on the lines through out the cave. The consensus is that if you want to get the attention of an individual in a scenario where there is separation from your buddy, you've searched but your gas reserves are low,then leave something on the line that is different and unique. In this case I write a note on my wet notes,and clothes pin it to the line. This is something that stands out and no longer blends in with the multiple markers that are on the line.

[FW]

This has been a frequently discussed item. People in an emergency situation,perceived or real,are they really going to stop and look at markers? I have talked to many instructors who lead lights out air share drills in a simulated emergency,and they have noted participants are on the line,some are verifying the exit by feel of line arrows,and some are not,but nobody looks at the multiple cookies on the lines through out the cave. The consensus is that if you want to get the attention of an individual in a scenario where there is separation from your buddy, you've searched but your gas reserves are low,then leave something on the line that is different and unique. In this case I write a note on my wet notes,and clothes pin it to the line. This is something that stands out and no longer blends in with the multiple markers that are on the line.

I would agree, if the diver is in a hurry to get out. What about the very calm experienced diver that is looking for his buddy, and may actually stay and continue searching after the buddy has exited. The Accident Analysis of just such an accident is where the cookie idea came from. FWIW, I tend to leave strange things on the line, like my survey book, to be sure my buddy gets the message. We were surveying, and I got cold on that dive

[Kelly Jessop]

I would agree, if the diver is in a hurry to get out. What about the very calm experienced diver that is looking for his buddy, and may actually stay and continue searching after the buddy has exited. The Accident Analysis of just such an accident is where the cookie idea came from. FWIW, I tend to leave strange things on the line, like my survey book, to be sure my buddy gets the message. We were surveying, and I got cold on that dive

I tend to think the cookie has saved lives because there is so much variability in how people are taught to place line arrows. You have some that are taught to place it facing the closest exit, some taught to place it facing your direction of your own exit,and some taught place it facing it in the direction of the known verifiable exit by yourself. These 3 different philosophies can result in 3 different line arrow placements at the same spot in the cave, which in an emergency can be calamitous having a line arrows conflicting with permenant line arrows existing on the line. (remember the accident at Madison where a line arrow facing the wrong direction expended time that could have been used for a safe exit.) The problem is that cookies are so plentiful on lines to be used as a personal reference or a glory marker,that frequently they are ignored. You are right a cool collected buddy that has experienced silt outs,pulse rate not being driven by adrenalin ,and knows to look out for a buddies cookie with an exit comment,will look for this. I am with you about leaving something unique on the line like a survey book, a wet note page with information,or even a 22 volume set of Encyclopedia Brittanica.

[FW]

...or even a 22 volume set of Encyclopedia Brittanica.

That might tend to pull the line down

[Kelly Jessop]

That might tend to pull the line down

We'll open volume T to the chapter on trimix,that will solve that problem