Experienced Cavers and Tech Divers Who've Died

[argyris]

Remember there is not any safety blanket. Anyone can die, on every dive. This is a sacred rule.
http://www.scubapatchart.com/images/cave_diving2.JPG
Or even better,wear this t-shirt as a silent agitator: http://www.scubapatchart.com/cave_diving_t-shirts.html Make a statement and let them wonder. If they do not understand this statement they dont have the proper mindset for cave diving.

Another good book about how complaceny kills even the trained and experient diver is the NACD "Guidelines for Success"
"Safe cave diving is no accident. Over time, many divers both trained and untrained in the art of safe cave diving have died in caverns and caves. Despite the fact divers are better educated today about the hazards of the cave environment, deaths continue. Trends show the cave diving community is effectively educating divers who lack cave training. Numbers of deaths among those who lack training continue to remain low. The numbers of deaths trending upward are among those who have been certified to cave dive. It is because of this concern the NACD is producing the book, Guidelines for Success. Times change and so do divers, techniques, and technology. With this in mind, we hope to offer the newest information available with a style that is positive and encourages divers to focus on making smart choices. Due to the fact that fatalities of certified cavern and cave divers is increasing, this book will include information directed specifically at those divers as well as those preparing to train. It will also provide good resource material for both sport and technical divers." http://www.nacdmembers.com/store/ind...&products_id=4.

[Jay]

With the exception of Parker Turner (collapse) and perhaps Roberta Swicegood (drysuit) it comes down to poor decision making. At some point in predive or during the dive folks make a bad decision and pay for it. You can teach and train people how to make good decisions and you can talk to them until you are blue in the face, but you can't make the decision for them.

[FW]

With the exception of Parker Turner (collapse) and perhaps Roberta Swicegood (drysuit) it comes down to poor decision making. At some point in predive or during the dive folks make a bad decision and pay for it. You can teach and train people how to make good decisions and you can talk to them until you are blue in the face, but you can't make the decision for them.

With Roberta, it was mostly poor decision making. If she had turned the dive when the drysuit started leaking, she would have made it out OK. She was too goal oriented, and tried to complete her survey, in spite of the flooded suit, in 50 degree water.

You can add "goal obsession" to the list of things that cause well trained cave divers to have accidents.
To list a few:
Sheck Exley, trying to set a depth record.
Steve Berman, trying to finish a map
Roberta Swicegood, trying to finish a survey.
Ron Simmons, trying to finish a map.

[Jay]

With Roberta, it was mostly poor decision making. If she had turned the dive when the drysuit started leaking, she would have made it out OK. She was too goal oriented, and tried to complete her survey, in spite of the flooded suit, in 50 degree water.

You can add "goal obsession" to the list of things that cause well trained cave divers to have accidents.

Good point. Goal obsession does lead to poor decisions. I know I have put myself in bad spots before because of it.

[phreaticus53]

Wes Skiles...trying to shoot video and make some cash using a rebreather that he was not trained or certified on, and ignoring one of the primary rules of rebreather use.."always carry sufficient bailout gas pertinent to the depths involved"
See "stay within your training".......the primary rule in Sheck's book.
I would add that COMPLACENCY is probably the biggest reason for very experienced, trained cave/technical diver deaths........
We've all cut corners...it's just a matter of the "domino effect"... if you started the dive with one domino tilting...the next one may set off the chain reaction that leaves to tragedy.

[Sludge]

Forrest, are you saying maps are three times as dangerous as depth?

[phreaticus53]

In a few cases...Sheck's, for example (Dana Turner and Lewis Holtzendorff also come to mind)...there were no "training levels" to stay within.....the diver was a pioneer and was pushing the envelope way beyond any training, or even documented science, available at the time.
The WKPP divers are in the same area...they do dives that are basically "guinea pig experiments", considering the depths and exposure/decompression times, and the gasses used for such.
Although their track record is long term enough and has the results now that they may be a lot more mainstream than normally admitted....and they do "training" in their techniques under GUE. Back in the 80's, 90's, and early "00's" they were still pretty experimental.

[Jay]

Forrest, are you saying maps are three times as dangerous as depth?

You may have hit on a point there. SOLO mapping may be three times more dangerous then depth.....

[LiteHedded]

In a few cases...Sheck's, for example (Dana Turner and Lewis Holtzendorff also come to mind)...there were no "training levels" to stay within.....the diver was a pioneer and was pushing the envelope way beyond any training, or even documented science, available at the time.
The WKPP divers are in the same area...they do dives that are basically "guinea pig experiments", considering the depths and exposure/decompression times, and the gasses used for such.
Although their track record is long term enough and has the results now that they may be a lot more mainstream than normally admitted....and they do "training" in their techniques under GUE. Back in the 80's, 90's, and early "00's" they were still pretty experimental.

there really is no training for what the wkpp does. GUE or otherwise.

[Sludge]

SOLO mapping may be three times more dangerous then depth.....

It wasn't being solo that got Steve and Ron - it was being solo without the extra contingencies that solo requires.