Planning a scooter dive to Heinkel restriction for very first time ...

[reiterman]

I believe standards are 50 post full cave.

[whodunit68]

I was under the impression that it was 50 post full. Please someone enlighten us.

several of the agencies ask for 50, correct.

[Jont]

There's not a shred of fact posted in this entire thread about the diver or posters qualifications to do the dive he was asking about.

The only fact we have is that a whole bunch of people have beaten him up for asking about a cave dive on a cave diving web site......doesnt make to much sense.

Just because someone asked about a dive doesnt mean anything and nothing should be inferred simply because he posed a question.

If you know the diver isn't qualified state why, how you know this and your relationship to the diver.

[TraceMalin]

Little would be gained by asking those in the know to plead their case to the forum. What has been gained is that the forum has allowed those who do have a relationship with the OP to have a social media intervention and plead their case to him.

[Jont]

Little would be gained by asking those in the know to plead their case to the forum. What has been gained is that the forum has allowed those who do have a relationship with the OP to have a social media intervention and plead their case to him.

I enjoyed meeting you at Wayne's and having dinner in Fort white this past December or January (I forget) but with respect I disagree.

The poster is a big boy and can take care of himself (he is in fact a very experienced diver), he chose to post about this topic so he can also deal with the consequences of his choice.

So to be blunt "proof up" or "shut up".

If he has 2 post cert cave dives obviously there's a problem but if that number is 50 its not so clear.

My point is there's no fact to support some of the statements and assumptions being made and the "if he's posting on line he doesn't have the experience" statement is flawed thinking, every day I ask many questions I know the answer to, the reason I ask them isnt to find an answer its to look at body language, disposition, reasoning, reaction, etc.

[nakatomi]

My point is there's no fact to support some of the statements and assumptions being made and the "if he's posting on line he doesn't have the experience" statement is flawed thinking, every day I ask many questions I know the answer to, the reason I ask them isnt to find an answer its to look at body language, disposition, reasoning, reaction, etc.

Just out of personal interest: How many post full-cave dives did they make, do they have a DPV certification as required in the Devils system? Do they have any experience with running/towing two scooters each, as planned? Will they bring stage tanks, if so, do they have a stage/multi-stage certification?

My motivation for asking is just such, as to try and understand to what extent others think it is OK to "bend" the training/experience limits.

Oliver

[kwinter]

Just out of personal interest: How many post full-cave dives did they make, do they have a DPV certification as required in the Devils system? Do they have any experience with running/towing two scooters each, as planned? Will they bring stage tanks, if so, do they have a stage/multi-stage certification?

My motivation for asking is just such, as to try and understand to what extent others think it is OK to "bend" the training/experience limits.

Oliver

Thank you for asking about their experience instead of assuming they have none just because they posted their question. I think that was Jon's point, and I agree completely.

[FW]

There's not a shred of fact posted in this entire thread about the diver or posters qualifications to do the dive he was asking about...

How about these?

Hi guys,
I try to dive caves as much as possible few times a year but definitely not so much like some of you...
Sebastian

... On average ocean wreck dive (thats what we do the most here in North East) my sac rate will be somewhere from 0.6 - 0.7 with full configuration, steel doubles, one or two stages, drysuit etc. but no scooter
With scooter would say somewhere from 0.45 and up....

The poster is a big boy and can take care of himself (he is in fact a very experienced diver)...

There is a world of difference between "a very experienced diver" and a very experienced cave diver.

Most of the recoveries we have done in caves have been "very experienced divers". A lot of them OW instructors.

Sadly a lot of experience in other types of diving only seems to give people over confidence in their limited experience in caves.

I have been cave diving for 44 years, and scootering ever since they were first used in caves. I wouldn't begin to consider myself qualified to dive a wreck, or dive under ice. Why would you think an experienced wreck diver could do the same type of dives as an experienced cave diver?

What worries me most about this thread is the "goal oriented" plan. Some of the best cave divers have been lost doing goal oriented dives. Sheck Exley, Steve Burman, Ron Simmons, and Agnes Milowka come to mind.

At the very most, the plan should be to go into Ginnie, and practice with scooters, stages, towing spare scooters, and each other, if they have never done that before.

I haven't seen an answer to the question posted earlier asking how many post full-cave dives they have, or if they have had any scooter training, or at least practice in all the scooter skills, like towing while buddy breathing, etc.

[Shocky]

If Peacock doesn't get blown out, I am planning a refresher scooter dive Thursday with Paul H back to the Maple Leaf and who knows where else. Then Peacock, Fri & Sat or Manatee. Don't keep a log book but receipts indicate 100+ dives. Besides, I'm with the MAN!

[a64pilot]

I like that, no logbook, but receipts. Me, I don't keep receipts, I see them as incriminating evidence