what steps should one take...

[offroadr1]

Guess Ill have to get some lights and a reel then. Last weekend, someone was running a reel in the quarry(I dont know why, practice maybe), and I was shown how whomever it was didnt not do a very good job. The way it was tied off was very sloppy and the line was run high and in the way.

So far sidemount feels great. It was almost like a great revelation to move the weight off my back and to my sides. The experience was more profound than i expected. It is the most comfortable that I have been in the water to date. On my first dive buoyancy was a little rough, but vastly improved on my second dive. Aside from the "heavy feet",(which is how I feel in any configuration) I cant find anything to complain about.

Whats the best way to learn different finning techniques? Apparently my frog kick needs some work, and I have been told what to do, but I cant see to make my legs do what I have been told. I guess the best way I can put it is: I know how it feels to do what I am doing now, but I dont know what it feels like to do it properly. How do I go about making that transition?

[Rhino]

Another $.02 adding a practice technique that may help the foot heavy feeling or frog kick, or both. All credit to Aletheia, unless I screwed up the description in which case the blame is all mine.

Set up lying on your stomach on a table or bench. Head and shoulders slightly over the edge, pillows or anything else under your hips to allow the tops of your shoulders to be slightly lower that the tops of your hips with your body straight. Try a couple of kicks without fins, just to get the feel of hanging over the edge and keeping your knees up. The real practice starts with fins on. Keeping your knees off the table/bench by tightening your abs and glutes, frog kick slowly and deliberately. Really focus on each part of the kick separately-you're not going anywhere, anyway, so don't rush it. I'll assume you're looking at video or getting coaching or both.

What you get from this exercise is, well exercise, and feedback. You may find that even if your knees aren't hitting the table your feet will still "feel" heavy to you (I know, I know- especially because your not in the water they will feel heavy)- but if they're not hitting the table, then you're not dropping them enough to matter most places in the water *and* you will be re-training yourself as to what it is like to "feel" heavy and still be all right. If you can spend a 1/2 hour-1 hour constantly kicking and not feel your knees hit the table.... Have fun and good luck!

[a64pilot]

For me, the greatest difficulty was running a reel in decreasing depth while maintaining neutral buoyancy, especially retrieving said reel when coming out because you can't go slow, your being blown out.
I'm starting my kid in a couple of weeks, and before his first day of class I want him to have the basics, to include reel work down pat. We will see if this is a good thing or not, I'm concerned as I'm no instructor, I may teach him incorrectly.

[JCGoodwin]

Hello offroadr1 your willingness to learn is a great attribute and the advice given is all correct.
Even the humorous ones are true!
Learning the rig is a big help and adjusting it to YOU is vital to getting your trim / buoyancy down.
I struggled for about a year trying everything then sought out some professional help.
It put my trim into proper alignment and then I finished customizing with little tweaks.

The other advice I would give is to train every dive.
What does that mean? Every dive has purpose or skills that build on one another.
I promise you once you feel your trim is good, go run a reel in a silty area it will humble you.
Do this in OW with a like minded buddy!

Working with reels should begin above water!
Practice your tie in, placement, etc. around the house / outside.
Gain familiarity with your reels.

You can work on some skills but if you learn incorrectly you have doubled your cave instructors job training you correctly.
I would contact the instructor I was going to use and get his advice and gear specs.
No offense to the mentor who is working with you just been there and done the exact same thing!
You will pick up habits some good, some bad either way it slows your training down. It did me!
It is fairly easy to include a instructor in the mentor process and it is good for mentor and student.
I have learned quite a bit along the way as student and student mentor!

JCG

[FW]

... We will see if this is a good thing or not, I'm concerned as I'm no instructor, I may teach him incorrectly.

There is an even bigger problem with a relative teaching, instructor, or not. I wouldn't worry about the reel, just work on buoyancy and trim for now.

[mer]

Buoyancy, trim, PROPULSION, and awareness of surroundings/situation. Propulsion is more than just the frog kick.

[FW]

...Propulsion is more than just the frog kick.

Wouldn't it be a little early to learn the best propulsion technique .... scootering?

[BabyDuck]

along with buoyancy, trim, and propulsion, the class lineup i would recommend is...

aow, nitrox, lots of dives with a mentor, cavern or cavern & intro, lots of dives, advanced nitrox, deco procedures, some dives, apprentice & full.

others may disagree, but i think an/dp needs to be done before app&full.

[Trey R]

Find local mentors. I had 2 experienced divers (Tony Chaney and ArticMike) that mentored me from Ow to Cave. They were able to fine tune my techniques and show me several schools of thought. I was shown what worked for them and what did not. We practiced all the skills needed in OW and that allowed me to breeze through my class.

As others said Buoyancy, trim, and Frog kick need to be mastered first.

[offroadr1]

Another $.02 adding a practice technique that may help the foot heavy feeling or frog kick, or both. All credit to Aletheia, unless I screwed up the description in which case the blame is all mine.

Set up lying on your stomach on a table or bench. Head and shoulders slightly over the edge, pillows or anything else under your hips to allow the tops of your shoulders to be slightly lower that the tops of your hips with your body straight. Try a couple of kicks without fins, just to get the feel of hanging over the edge and keeping your knees up. The real practice starts with fins on. Keeping your knees off the table/bench by tightening your abs and glutes, frog kick slowly and deliberately. Really focus on each part of the kick separately-you're not going anywhere, anyway, so don't rush it. I'll assume you're looking at video or getting coaching or both.

What you get from this exercise is, well exercise, and feedback. You may find that even if your knees aren't hitting the table your feet will still "feel" heavy to you (I know, I know- especially because your not in the water they will feel heavy)- but if they're not hitting the table, then you're not dropping them enough to matter most places in the water *and* you will be re-training yourself as to what it is like to "feel" heavy and still be all right. If you can spend a 1/2 hour-1 hour constantly kicking and not feel your knees hit the table.... Have fun and good luck!

This is what I was looking for regarding the frog kick. How I could mimic that action and feel the correct way! Thank you! Ill just have to wait until my room mate is not home. Would rather not have an audience as I frog Kick on the coffee table...

Hello offroadr1 your willingness to learn is a great attribute and the advice given is all correct.
Even the humorous ones are true!
Learning the rig is a big help and adjusting it to YOU is vital to getting your trim / buoyancy down.
I struggled for about a year trying everything then sought out some professional help.
It put my trim into proper alignment and then I finished customizing with little tweaks.

The other advice I would give is to train every dive.
What does that mean? Every dive has purpose or skills that build on one another.
I promise you once you feel your trim is good, go run a reel in a silty area it will humble you.
Do this in OW with a like minded buddy!

Working with reels should begin above water!
Practice your tie in, placement, etc. around the house / outside.
Gain familiarity with your reels.

You can work on some skills but if you learn incorrectly you have doubled your cave instructors job training you correctly.
I would contact the instructor I was going to use and get his advice and gear specs.
No offense to the mentor who is working with you just been there and done the exact same thing!
You will pick up habits some good, some bad either way it slows your training down. It did me!
It is fairly easy to include a instructor in the mentor process and it is good for mentor and student.
I have learned quite a bit along the way as student and student mentor!

JCG

Thank you for your advice. This is exactly the kind of information that I am hoping to learn from this thread. I want to sort out the skills that I am capable of learning at this point, that will not cause issues later when I am receiving instruction. I hope to have Edd as my instructor. About 90% of the money I have spent on diving has been with him anyhow. I stopped by his place on a recent dive trip just to kill some time and check out the park. In the short time I was there, I learned more about my equipment than I had total to date. The way he presented the information was very impressive to me. Everything he said made sense, and had a good explanation as to why it was done that way. I dont want my practice at this point to substitute cave training. I just want to be ready for class in the sense that when I arrive, I want to be a competent diver so that I can learn to cave dive rather than learn to dive properly, then learn to cave dive. The less bad habits I learn now, the less there is to undo later so that i can focus on learning new material, not relearning what I should already know.

The quarry near me is dark and silty. The have several swim through tubes and other structures around. I am thinking it might be an ideal place to cave dive without a cave. I dont think I am quite ready to run reels yet, but this is definitely food for thought. I hope to keep this thread going as I progress so that I have a good reference and way to track my performance along the way.